MaxFly

You don't know that do you... And on the off chance that Will would say the same thing... "Bush doesn't care about black people," he'd be wrong to say it at the benefit concert too, and I'd be just as vehement on the issue. Regardless of who it is, it was still the wrong time and place to say what Kanye said.

Dawg, my family's dying, the government's not there for me, why am I breaking into people's home to "find" valuables and why am I breaking into electronics stores to "find" electronics. What do I need with those things. 80% of my city is underwater and there is little electricity... If I care about my family so much, why am I and my friends commiting carjackings, shooting at people and raping little girls... There is absolutely NO excuse. If you're looking for food, look for food. Officials have opened up supermarkets and grocery stores so that people can get food. They've asked people to limit themselves to approximately 50 dollars worth of food so that everyone who comes can get something. This is on the honor system. I don't consider taking food at a time like this looting, regardless of what the media calls it and regardless of whether the government has sanctioned it or not. But why are people breaking into people's cars looking for "food." Why are people breaking into people's homes looking for "food" and walking out with valuables. Are the people raping little girls looking for "food" too? Are the televisions and dvd players THAT I HAVE SEEN BEING CARRIED OUT OF STORES edible... Be sensible. Here's a quote... The desperate efforts to impose some sense of order amid the chaos were further hampered by outbreaks of looting, particularly in New Orleans where one Wal-Mart store was ransacked with its whole collection of weapons taken. "There are gangs of armed men in the city moving around the city," said Terry Ebbert, the city's homeland security chief. Here are two links for you if you think this is a joke...Looting More Looting Any and all leaders need to employ wisdom in their decisions. A leader should know when and where to say what they need to say. It is an intrinsic facet of being a leader, good judgement. Kanye exibited bad judgement when he said what he said at the benefit concert. At a time where he should have been trying to garner funds to help survivors of the tragedy and to create unity, he only served to create controversy and quite likely offend and turn off a number of potential donors. He said that Georges Bush doesn't like black people, however, as many have noted on various television and radio broadcasts, FEMA, the Federal Emergency Managemnet Agency should bare the blunt of the blame for the disorganized way the relief efforts were initially carried out. Not only did Kanye address the issue at the wrong time and place, but he largely misdirected misdirected his criticism. Some leader... That's not my argument, so I'll let the person who that is addressed to respond. Wow... Bush's father planted crack in the hood to control the rising black people? Crack came out in 1984... Bush's father became president in 1989.... He was vice-president from 1981-1989... Since the vice-president answers directly to the president, you're basically saying that Ronald Reagan is responsible for putting crack in the hood. I'm not going to even try to tell you how ludicrous and ignorant that is... Everything you said in this section of your post is speculation and you personal feelings... Nothing based in fact... However, your "leader" Kanye said that Bush doesn't like black people; just another way of saying that Bush is racist... Yet you dont think Bush is a racist, but you support Kanye's statement anyway even though you don't agree with it... This is why hip hop is confused... people don't know where they stand.

That's actually not true Sonic. The early voter turnout showed John Kerry with a significant lead in many states. As the afternoon wore into the evening, and the evening wore into the night, the exit poll results significantly narrowed, and then Bush took the lead on a number of states in the exit polls. The exit polls all relate fairly similar results to the official vote counts. Those who interpreted them are the ones who made the error. They began looking at the exit polls too early and overanalyzed them. They saw Kerry with early leads and started to believe that he would win many of the states he had leads in. The problem is that Bush rallied in the afternoon and in the evening on these very same exit polls, something that the analyzers didn't expect, and then ended up ultimately winning them. Here is an accurate reference of the final exit poll data from the 2004 election... http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/res...0/epolls.0.html Incidentally, this is what I'm talking about when I say that people make statements on matters that are not true or grossly uninformed. Guys, make sure that your statements are accurate or as close to accurate as possible. When you post something inaccurate it only serves to chip away at your credibility.

well we actually didn't choose him. bush used his daddy's connections to win 2 terms. the truth is that in 2000 the republicans literally stopped people from voting beause they would do the following: in USA if you are in jail you can't vote so let's say that there is a guy in jail named Will Smith, now let's say that the Will Smith that we know goes to vote. Even if he is in another state they won't let him vote because he has the same name as a guy in jail. also in 2004 the whole thing was fake, because the exit polls (when the press asks people who they voted for right after they leave the voting booth.) they said that john kerry won in a landslide. ← :word: I would add that in the 2000 elections, the actual vote counting was stopped and then the supreme court (the majority appointed by Republican presidents) handed the presidency to Bush, and then basically said that the decision was a one time decision and shouldn't be used as a basis for any future events. ← I'd have to concur on that point. In addition, thousands of votes were not counted and many complained of voter intimidation and underhanded practices. Voting boxes went missing. The whole thing was a debacle.

It's one thing to have objections, but it's a different thing entirely to jump on the bandwagon and insult and criticize because everyone else is doing it. Even in this thread, people have said things that have no basis in fact in their attempts to criticize the president. My only wish is that people would get their facts correct and know what they are saying before they post. Don't regurgitate something you heard someone else say just because it sounds right or because you want to believe it. Instead, investigate and then speak from your own knowledge on the subject, not from what someone has told you. This is largely why Bush is in office today. The Republicans stuck to their talking points during the election season and many people believed them without investigating the facts behind their statements.

Bush has never called the relief efforts a complete success... I'm not sure where you heard this or who told you this, but the source is wrong. In fact, he has called the efforts disorganized and "unacceptable." To set the record straight, here at the exact words he said. The magnitude of the crisis "has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities... The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need, especially in New Orleans. And that is unacceptable." Also, I brought up the topic of Lance Armstrong, 6 time Tour de France winner because in trying to insult Bush, you make it seem that because he fell off his bike, he is an idiot or incompetent... These are you words... "This is the dude that got hurt falling off his bike for gods sake" How ridiculous is that statement when Lance Armstrong, who rides bikes for a living and is a champion at doing it, has fallen off and been injured several times. If you want to insult the president, do it right. Mention Iraq or WMDs, not that he fell off his bike...

I have a lot on my mind man, I feel like I could write a whole album right now, the problems in this world are ridiculous, action must be made. ← Ted, maybe its just me but ur posts seem so repititive. i think u got so much on ur mind right now that u can't even keep ur discussions on topic. it goes from Kanye to Bill O'Reilly... i skimmed thru ur lost post and saw Russel Simmons, Chuck D, KRS-One, Fugees, MC Hammer, Nas. come on dude, we're talking about the crisis here and whether or not speaking out against Bush is right. nobody's gonna bother to read that much, especially when u get sidetracked from the topic like that. it seems like a lot of ur posts are like that. sometimes it seems like i'm reading the same stuff all over again. and why would u post Will's verse? don't u think we've heard it 100 times at least? i dunno man... if u ever try to write a book i hope it doesn't have a topic or else ur gonna end up goin off that topic within the first page. :paperbag: ← :sipread:

What does Bush have to do with this topic. Incidentally, Lance Armstrong has been hurt "falling off his bike." If you're going to attack the president, be coherent. It has become too commonplace that people criticize the president, and lately, it has seemed to be more of a fad than anything else.

You just don't get it do you?! You don't think that if it was a black commentator, he'd be taken off the air as soon as the scandal hit the air? I mean if a black commentator just says something controversial they'll instantly throw him off the air. My man I think a lot of people in our society are blind to reality, people don't know what it feels like for me to be black if I screw up my life is ruined. It doesn't matter what happened there I don't give a f*** but he turns around to criticise rappers for doing things when he ain't no saint himself he needs to keep his damn mouth shut, if Will Smith did something like this believe me his image would be ruined, mark my word on that one! Why the hell are you debating this anyway, if Will was there he'd say the same thing too, KRS would say the same thing, hell Chuck D wrote a song about it already, the hip-hop community is applauding what Kanye's doing, this ain't about how much skills he has, it's about being a man and standing up for what you believe in, isn't this why we like Will too? I'm not saying he's on the same level as Will but in a rap industry that's full of heartless rappers just saying or doing anything to sell records I just don't expect it from any of these commercial rappers, a lot of underground rappers would say something but they can't since they ain't on TV, but Kanye surprised me and I'm gonna support him more now! btw, here's the lyrics I wrote today getting my feelings out, I usually would just post it in "Caught In The Middle" but I feel it's only appropriate for this post: ← Ted, why don't you just admit that you were wrong about the entire O'Reilly thing. First you said that he charged with rape. Then you said it was a typo and that you meant that someone accused him of rape. However, no one accused him of rape. Before you try to make points, you have to get the facts straight or any points you do try to make become moot as a result to the glaring inaccuracy in such statements as the one you made about O'Reily... I hope you address the gross inaccuracy in your statement about O'Reilly. Next... If Will had said what Kanye said, or anything similar, I would be saying the same thing. Why create divisiveness when you are asked to create unity. Truthfully, I think Will would avoid such a topic and do what NBC asked him to do. He strikes me as someone who has tact... Kanye on the other hand...

The Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court has died. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9194092/

The link is on the very first page of this thread.

You want to compare Eminem with someone, be reasonable; compare him with another contemporary rapper. All these rappers are talking about doing drugs, smoking weed, killing people, robing people, and they are enjoying the exact same leniency that Eminem is enjoying, and they're black. Some of them go to jail and get out and no one remembers that they went to jail. No one mentions it. It's not just Eminem. It's the culture now. If someone came out now and said the same exact things that 2 Pac said before, there wouldn't be nearly as much controversy as there was when 2 Pac said them. Also, no, it was not the right time for Kanye to say what he said. Again, this was a benefit concert to raise funds to help people suffering from the effects of the hurricane and the flood. This was not the time to criticize the federal government and the president. It was a time to build unity and get everyone to work together. Instead, Kanye's statements served to fuel disunity at a time when that is the last thing people need. Lastly, I'll say this again... If Kanye felt the need to call someone out, he should have called out the young men who are perpetrating violence during a time of tragedy. What excuse is there to go around raping girls, looting people's home and stores looking for valuables, shooting at rescue workers and citizens who, for many, have been through the worst event in their lives; taking advantage of a time of tragedy to promote lawlessness.

Ted, I followed the Bill O'Reilly situation last year very closely. One of the producers of his program accused him of verbal sexual harassment, over the phone at that, not rape. There was no trial, there was no charge. There was only an accusation. There was never any threat of a criminal charge. There was a civil lawsuit, and this was filed out of court. Your statements were more than typos. You were simply misinformed. Incidentally, you may want to read through the link you posted.

That video is on point. It's funny, because I have a lot of those clips. I don't know if you have the clip when he got the alle from Brian Shaq against the Sixers. He jumped, caught the ball on one side of the rim, and dunked it on the other side, all while being fouled... Ridiculous... But you do have my favorite clip, the behind the back shake, 360 dunk on denver... Brings a smile to my face everytime... Excellent job...

Hope he has a 3005 rap-up... Should be hot

The problem with what Kanye said is that he spoke it at a time and a place that was inappropriate. Again, he should have sought to promote unity and to call on Americans to help their fellow Americans... It was not the time and the place to call out the president or criticize the government. He had a right to say what he said, but he chose a poor time and place to say it. And again, if he realy wanted to say something meaningful, he should have called on his brothers in Louisiana to work with one another and to stop the violence and the lawlessness. He should have called on them to work with those who are trying to provide aid, not hinder their efforts.

Aight man that was a typo but you're missing my point, don't you think if Will was accused of rape like Bill O'Reilly was and even was proven innocent like Bill O'Reilly was wouldn't Will's image still be ruined? :stickpoke: I mean they still talk about 2Pac being in jail 10 years later and won't let him rest in peace and yet Eminem being in jail is quickly forgotten already. :sick: It should be a double standard in society, we're not totally equal yet. ← Ted, Bill O'Reilly was never accused of rape... No one has said that Bill O'Reilly raped them... That may be a typo too, so I'll give you time to correct that as well. I'm going to address your point, but I'll continue to press you on this Bill O'Reilly thing, so don't skip a response to it... You're right. Society often has a double standard for people of differet races. However... Many rappers these days go to jail and they often sell more records as a result so the eminem thing isn't that big an issue. So many rappers are charged with illegal possesion of weapons and drugs, it's become common place and is quickly forgotten, not just for Eminem as you have insinuated, but for everyone... The thing with 2Pac is that he glorified his jail time, always talked about it, always made it an issue. The man had thug life tatooed across his stomach. He talked about it in his music so it is always going to be an issue when he is mentioned...

Ted, you said... "they put down Mike Tyson for being a rapist but Bill O'Reilly was charged with rape too but they don't talk about that anymore the way they do with Mike Tyson" Those are your exact words... You didn't say if Bill O"Reily was charged with rape... You said "Bill O'Reilly was charged with rape too but they don't talk about that anymore." When was Bill O'Rielly charged with rape...

I was watching the video again last night, but on a better monitor. I think once it's on TV, it'll be even more obvious... But seeing it on a better screen, it doesn't look anything like Jeff and it doesn't look as shadowy either. When I saw it on a bad monitor I was convinced that they where trying to pass him off as jeff, but now I think it's just some random DJ that I was reading too much into. ← Yeah, I think we may be reading too much into that...

Lets not forget Just the Two of Us... That was a very good single... (r&b/rap or whatever, it was great single). Party Starter may be the best single since Just the Two of Us.

The news doesn't seem to shy away from that at all. ← They also don't seem to be shying away from the fact that the govenment has failed to provide adequate support for those who are still suffering. They are doing their job; addressing all sides of the issue and asking the questions that need to be asked. The media has in no way given the government a free pass on their slowness in providing aid to those in Louisiana and especially New Orlenes. Perhaps Kanye should follow the media's lead and address all sides of the story as well. ← I suppose that the coverage you get in Mass is very different the coverage I see in Indiana. Which could explain why we're on different sides on this. :) The coverage I see rarely asks any hard questions about why the response time for this group of people seems to be so much worse then the response time for other groups of people. ← Chris Matthews, Tucker Carlson, Keith Olbermann, Rita Crosby, Anderson Cooper have all been discussing it... In fact, I'm watching CNN right now, and they are discussing the race issue and the response issue this very second...

You don't think Bush could've done more in 4 f****n' days? A lot of those people have nowhere to go 'cause they're poor, you can't leave if you don't have money, the gas prices are ridiculous right now. Come on now I'm sure Will feels the same way that Kanye does too since he stood up for Chuck D when he said "F*** Bush!" 15 years ago when the father was there and said that Chuck D was right in standing up the way the most of us blacks feel. There's always a few weirdos in the crowd but that doesn't mean you should stop trying to help the ones that weren't doing anything! This ain't a black or white issue, it's about all of us surviving, tell that to the media though and it's a different story. There might've been white ones shootin' too but they never show them, they only show the black people shootin', we're the thugs, but every race has thugs, they wanna make it look like blacks are the only ones, they put down Mike Tyson for being a rapist but Bill O'Reilly was charged with rape too but they don't talk about that anymore the way they do with Mike Tyson, this is a prejudice society we live in, they put down KRS-ONE for dropping out of high school and say he's ignorant 'cause of that but even Peter Jennings dropped out of high school and we didn't hear about it until his death, KRS is just as smart as Peter Jennings but they wanna make it look like he's an idiot, they act like black girls are the only ones that drop out of school and get pregnant but a lot of white girls drop out of school and get pregnant too, you don't realise all the stereotypes black people have, it's hard for us to get full acceptance in society no matter what we do, we all screw up but when a black person screws up we have to deal with it for the rest of our lives but when a white person screws up they get forgiven, it's not right, the media has too much stereotypes, it's like Elvis was a crack addict too who died of overdose but they don't talk about that the way they do when James Brown was caught with drugs almost 20 years ago, they still talk about that and only talk about Elvis is a musical genius and celebrate his birthday every damn year like a national holiday and don't give a damn about James Brown's birthday and he's still living, that's not what I call a fair society do you? :shrug: ← Ted, when was Bill O'Reilly charged with rape.

The news doesn't seem to shy away from that at all. ← They also don't seem to be shying away from the fact that the govenment has failed to provide adequate support for those who are still suffering. They are doing their job; addressing all sides of the issue and asking the questions that need to be asked. The media has in no way given the government a free pass on their slowness in providing aid to those in Louisiana and especially New Orlenes. Perhaps Kanye should follow the media's lead and address all sides of the story as well.

If he wanted to take the lead for his community, he should have addressed the hordes of young black men roaming the city, raping girls, carjacking, shooting at rescue helicopters... (rescue helicopters!), shooting at people waiting to be rescued infront of the superdome including the sick and the elderly, shooting at people while they are being rescued, shooting at law enforcement, looting gun shops... People involved in the rescue efforts have said that they are afraid for their lives and some have refused to go into the city because of the violence... There are police officers that have turned in their badges saying that they've lost their homes, they don't want to lose their lives... You want to address some issues, lets talk about all the issues... don't be myopic. ← That shouldn't have stopped them from trying to help the people, a few people shoot at you and you go away from helping? People shoot at our troops all the time in Iraq but that doesn't stop us from helping their refugess does it? If you're just gonna be a pussy and go away and not try to help anymore nothin' will get done, they could've easily gone to a spot where they weren't shootin', they were still shootin' in some areas when Bush came in too but he stayed didn't he? Kanye could've said something like that too but he didn't have all day to speak you know! ← We're talking about civilians trying to help people and being shot at... People passing out food and being assaulted. Kanye, address that. Others are addressing the racism but everyone seems to shy away from the issue of needless violence and assault.

MSNBC, CNN, PBS, NBC, ABC, CBS, WB, Fox, Fox News and others have all had extensive coverage of the tragedy... MSNBC and CNN especially have had around the clock coverage of what's been going on, including pictures and footage of the dead, of rescue missions and of those at the superdome being interviewed among other things... The coverage has been massive and extensive... Most news programs have been devoted to the stories, and much of the remaing programs have devoted a considerable chunk of their airtime to the news stories coming from New Orlenes. The federal government was ready for the hurricane... They were not ready for the flood. They did not anticipate the flood, and they should have. They were told that the levees would hold to a reasonable extent, but the engineers and technicians were wrong. They were caught off guard, but the blame doesn't fully lie on them. Chertoff himself has said that the collapse of the levee system was not anticipated. Why is the government sending troops trained to kill? Because there are predators roaming around, shooting and raping people. Carjackings... houses being broken into and people being attacked... You can't save massive amounts of people when you're being shot at and violently harassed. It's hard to save people when you yourself are afraid for your life and there is a lack of law enforcement officials. The government is trying to reestablish order while they are trying to save lives.