MaxFly

And with 50 Cent. :lolsign: ← Lol... waiting for a response to this one...

Ok... now end of the day where... cause in some places in the world, the end of the day is nearing... China, Japan... Don't mess with us talking about the end of the day Hawaii time, which is tomorrow for most of us... lol.

Whether it's Interscope's fault or Will's... it still doesn't change the fact that Party Starter should have come out a month to a month and a half ago to best help the album...

Ted, I guess my thing is that I don't see Will doing well with Lost and Found and Will being true to himself as mutually exclusive things... I think he can handle his business in the classy way he always has, but at the same time, promote his work to the best of his ability without compromising his integrity. We're not talking payola here... we're talking about releasing one single earlier and doing other songs off of the album... I also don't agree with the notion that it's "Either you respect his decision for keepin' it true to himself and not the industry's way or you diss him for not promoting enough." I'm not dissing Will, and it doesn't seem like it has to be an either/or, all or nothing choice. I think a person can respect the fact that Will has stayed true to himself and has handled things with integrity while at the same time point out specific things that may have helped him to be more successful with the projects he has undertaken. There's no middle ground? It's either diss him or agree with everything he does? You make it sound as if Will's promoting or attempt to promote the album better would mean that he's not being true to himself. As long as he handles things with integrity, he is being true to himself. There are certain standard business practices in music that help you to promote and market your work. Releasing a single is probably the most innocent and standard of all of them, moral and immoral... What if Will believed that breaking up with Jazzy and not doing music or movies ever again was being true to himself... Would I respect it? Of course... I would even go as far as trying to understand such a decision, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it and suddenly agree with it. As you have intimated, if Will somehow believes that releasing Party Starter earlier is not being true to himself (which is farfetched concept in itself)... I can repsect that decision, but in a forum such as this, there's nothing wrong with my expressing that I don't agree with such a decision. However, the truth of the matter is that releasing Party Starter a month to a month and a half earlier would not have caused Will to compromise himself in any way. The way you speak, you make it seem as if it would have. We must also remember that we don't know that Will has the absolute final word on when singles are released. Interscope may very well be responsible for the delay of Party Starter. I'd be a lot happier to blame interscope than Will. Podcast worthy material indeed...

Lol :wiggle:

Hahaha, you guys are ridiculous. Lol What can I say, I try to keep the board entertained.

I wouldn't mind hearing Will on Sean Paul's Get Busy. It'd be hot to hear hip spit over Masta Ace's Acknowledge... that would be hot...

Lol, I'm not saying you can't discuss KRS-ONE or Public Enemy... but you discuss either he or someone from the old school in every other post, and the posts generally have the same theme... the industry is hating on them... they aren't popular because the youth of today is brainwashed... if the youth weren't brainwashed, they'd all be selling 5x or whatever... And it's like, yeah ted... I feel you on that theme, but I also agreed and felt you when you addressed that theme 2 posts ago and when you address it in 7 out of your last 10 posts as well.

1. I don't know Will, nor have I ever claimed to know him or any of the people he works with. However, this is a message board about Will and Jeff where people are encouraged to discuss a variety of topics... including Will and Jeff. If you are trying to liken my observation that you mention KRS-ONE quite a bit to me talking about Will quite a bit... I have to remind you that this is a JJFP message board... where most if not all of us come to talk about... Will. Now if I knew Will, best believe that he would know my feelings about the Party Starter release just as I am sure if you knew KRS-ONE, you'd mention him even more than you already do... 2. People in general like Party Starter. That's the general concensus. We've gone back and forth for a few pages now, yet you still haven't provided a plausible reason as to why it is better to release Party Starter now than to release it a month to a month and a half ago... So you release it a month ago and it flops... you release it now and it flops... Wouldn't it be better to have released it a month ago so that Will and Co. would still have options while the album sales were still fairly decent and people still had interest in the album? Now if it does well, which you have already gone on record as saying that you doubt will happen, it would still have been a help to the album because, again, it would work to garner more interest and buzz around the album when album sales were still decent and people were still interested if not convinced about buying it. You've mentioned that an earlier release of Party Starter may have prevented Will form appearing on various television shows... How did you even come to that conclusion? Do you have any proof that Will paid to appear at the Live 8 or any of the earlier shows he did in June? If so, and Overbrook is so strapped for cash, why is it that they filmed the Party Starter video in June? It just seems that you're throwing out ideas to support your point, but I'm not even sure what your point is anymore... 3. We can blame the industry all we want... they are indeed largely to blame concerning the current state of hip hop, but I'm not talking about the industry's short commings making it impossible for Lost and Found to reach 5x. I'm talking about things Will and Co. could have done to make Lost and Found more successful than it currently is. Lost and Found, even with the indiustry imposed limitations, can do better than it has done so far. Let me make this clear... Lets say that on a scale from 1-10, the "industry" stipulates that I can only atain a 5 because of its bias towards me... If I'm doing my thing, I shouldn't be worried about the 6-10 the industry is preventing me from getting... I should work to attain the 5, and then worry about the rest after I have obtained the 5. But if I'm only at a 3, I haven't even attained what the industry has limited me to even though I can indeed reach that 5 if I take the necessary steps... That's where Lost and Found is... it's at a 3 where as, even with the industry limitations, it could have attained a 5 with better planning and measured steps... I believe that an earlier release of Party Starter would have helped it on the road to attain that 5.

I had to ask this because this has been at the back of my mind for awhile... Ted, are you related to KRS-ONE? It seems like you reference KRS-ONE every time you see an opportunity... I can imagine all of us in the "Caught in the Middle" forum taking about our favorite candy with you saying... Yeah... KRS-ONE likes skittles... Chuck D likes skittles too. The problem with hip hop is that Emptv and BET like M&Ms, and only because they like Eminem... So now we have a whole bunch of kids running around poppin M&Ms without knowing that real hip hop is all about skittles and that hip hop originated with skittles. But really, are you related to KRS-ONE?

I doubt that it doesn't cost money to perform on TV, that's bull****, if that was true then KRS-ONE could perform his single on 106 & Park, right? The record label pays the TV station to get their artist to perform on their shows, that's part of promotion, it's not charity. Are you saying that Will and Overbrook paid The Today Show, Leno, MTV, BET, Nokia, Live 8, MTVBase, Nikelodeon, and all the radio programs Will has appeared on so that they could invite Will to perform or give an interview? Does someone else want to clarify and correct this notion? I just don't want to go off on a tanget, but this statement will defintely have that effect... About Party Starter going to number 1 on the charts... So all of a sudden, Party Starter is going to flop? If Party Starter doesn't hit number 1 on the charts or get into the top 5, that's a flop? Are you saying that Party Starter's release will afford no benefit to Lost and Found. Do you even really belive that, or are you making arguments for the sake of making arguments? What you have to realize is that if Party Starter flops now, Lost and Found is pretty much done. If Party Starter flopped in June, Lost and Found would still have a chance to rebound with Tell Me Why. But then this again goes to the point of whether Party Starter would hurt album sales. People would have to specifically hear Party Starter and say, "I'm not going to buy Lost and Found because I don't like Party Starter" for Party Starter to hurt album sales, but we know from even other forums that people in general like Party Starter. Ted, your saying that there is a good chance that Party Starter will flop is pretty much the same thing as saying that you believe that the album has pretty much done the best that it can and that it is pretty much done at this point... You're entitled to your opinions... but do you really believe this, or are you just throwing out arguments for why Will was right to leave Switch out as the only single for 5 months?

Ted... Lost and Found sold 200k after the first 3 weeks. That was April... Surely you don't think I wanted Party Starter to be released that early when Switch was only out for a month and a half. Also, it doesn't take money to be invited to perform on tv programs. I don't think Will paid to perform at Nokia, Live 8, Nickelodeon, MTV Base and others... But let say he did. Lets say Overbrook had to pay for Will to perform... The Party Starter video was shot in June... so even then, it doesn't seem that all the appearaces Overbrook would have paid for hurt their ability to shoot a video. You're basically saying that by Will releasing Party Starter earlier, he would have been on television less... why? That doesn't make sense. It seems that there would be incentive to be on television more for free promotion of the album and single. Ted, you're also intimating that a release if Party Starter any earlier than now would have hurt album sales... You need to clarify that, because it seems that you're saying Party Starter would have hurt album sales and that's very unlikely. Trust me, I'll vote as much as possible, but this is exactly why Party Starter should have been released in June Ted. In June, Will would have been able to promote it along with continuing to perform Switch. Now, it's going to be a little harder for Party Starter to do well while Will is engaged in something else.

You stated People are saying Party Starter would have been huge if it was released earlier but no one knows for sure. What if he released it earlier and it flopped? What if Will releases Party Starter now and it flops? Should he not release Party Starter at all from fear that the single wouldn't do well? If he plans to release it anyway, why not earlier to bolster falling album sales instead of later when album sales are at 12k and the album is number #85 on the charts? And please don't make it sound like Overbrook doesn't have money to get things done... The Party Starter video was shot at the beginning of June and it sounds relatively expensive from the descriptions we've gotten... The video was done already... It's been sitting for about a month and a few weeks now. You listed a great deal about the Michael Jackson HIStory album and its shortcomings, however we are just talking about one more single (which was bound to be released) and a couple of other songs in his performances. He intended to release Party Starter; he should have released it earlier so that on the off chance that it didn't flop (since is so likely to flop given how Switch has done), it would have kept album sales somewhat afloat and again maintained a buzz around the album. If Party Starter did flop, two options... get ready to release Tell Me Why for the fall, or give up on on Lost and Fall altogether. Knowing Will, and knowing that this album isn't Born 2 Reign, I doubt he'd give up on an album he took a year away from movies to focus on. I doubt he'd just give up on an album in which he put forth a great deal of effort to be introspective and write from his heart. At the very least, if Party Starter had flopped in June, Will would have had more options at that time than he has if Party Starter flops now, and album sales would still be higher right now. As much as we discuss whether Party Starter could or would flop, I don't think anyone is going to start contending that Party Starter would have hurt album sales. At Nokia, Will performed a host of songs, including The Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme song, Summertime, I Wanna Rock, Switch, and the mysterious Willywood lyrics... Are you saying that they asked Will to perform these songs and these songs only? Are you saying that someone at the music festival told him to perform the Willywood lyrics, especially since the people in the crowd aren't familiar with it? It is evident that Will had a choice of which songs he could perform at the Nokia Music Festival. It is highly highly unlikely that Will was told to do these sets, including I Wanna Rock and the Willywood Lyrics. The same goes for the Live 8. Will did Switch, Summertime, and TFPOBA theme song... usually at a concert, when an artist is doing a couple of sets, they have the choice as to what they will perform. It is also highly unlikely that someone handling the Live 8 told Will to perform the FPOBA theme... Incidentally topdawg, you haven't really answered my question. Do you truly believe that having Switch out for 5 months as the only single was the best road to take in promoting Lost and Found?

Where. To. Begin. topdawg, since you've put me on the spot... more or less... let me return the favor. Direct Question: Do you truly believe that having Switch out for 5 months as the only single was the best road to take in promoting Lost and Found? Let me respond to your post now. No, topdawg, I haven't missed a single thing. The NBA or ABC may have asked Will to specifically perform Switch at the finals and that is fine. I've already stated that I wish he could have done Party Starter, but what he was asked to do was what he had to do, no problem there. However, what prevented Will from performing other songs from the album at the Live 8 and Nokia? Also, Will didn't seem to have any problem performing Party Starter at the 46664 event in South Africa even though the crowd wasn't familiar with it... What prevented Will from releasing Party Starter a month ago? Would Party Starter's release then have hurt album sales? Would even less people buy Lost and Found because Party Starter was now out and realized that not all the songs on the album were like Switch? Moving along, you stated, concerning promotion... And as I stated before, Overbrook doesn't have the type of money that labels like Sony and Interscope have. I can't get over the most obvious thing here... Switch has been out for almost 5 months... Its been the only single off of the album, yet you and Ted keep saying that there's not much else Will could have done to promote the album. That's not true... That is not true. A single is a form of promotion for an album... It then follows that releasing a second single in a timely fashion would have been a form of promotion that Will did not do. Performing another song from the album in concerts and events where Will had free reign would have been a form of promotion as well, especially with the large audiences, including radio and tv that some of those events had. As for radio and tv playing Will's music... I've seen and heard Switch multiple times on both mediums. BET played the Switch video 3 or 4 times a day. Radio played Switch quite often as well; look at Switch's number of spins... This time around, those aren't acceptable excuses. Switch was played quite often and that is partly why it was so successful. There's no indication that Party Starter would have been any less successful if released earlier. Let me say this for what is hopefully the last time.... I hope I'm clear this time... I don't expect Lost and Found to do ridiculous numbers, but at the same time Lost and Found is not doing as well as it can do. It's not doing as well as it can do. Lost and Found is not doing as well as it can do. I said it three times so that my position on this issue won't be confused. There are decisions and actions, which I've stated, that could have been done to help further promote the album, boost album sales a little and garner more interest and buzz for the album. No Spin. No excuses.

What beat, current or oldschool would you want to hear Will spit a couple of rhymes over? I was listening to Freeway's Flipside a little earlier and I'd definitelty want to hear WIll rip something over that beat?

So I'll ask again... Perfoming Getting Jiggy Wit It, Summertime, The Fresh Prince of Bel Air theme song and Switch was the best he could do to promote Lost and Found? Again, I'm not talking about 3x or 4x... I'm talking about what Lost and Found can or could have realistically done if promoted properly. Lost and Found is not doing the best it can do, even with the present state of hip hop and as vapid as the fans are. The one verse of "I Wish I Made That" that Will did on BET is not going to make people rush out to buy the album, especially when, in this age, there's so much other music and other musicians competing for attention. A musician needs to stand out to get the attention of the fans as well as the haters and the doubters. Switch alone is not going to do that. Even more, the fact that he's dancing in the video is going to turn people off. I've heard from so many people that if it wasn't for Mr. Nice Guy, they wouldn't have bought the album and subsequently discovered how good it is because Switch just didn't generate much interest for them. Mike Jones' video was on BET 17 times a day. He doesn't need to go out and do all the shows because his promotion is the video and exposure from the video. Why is it that people are afraid to say that having Switch out as the only single for almost 5 months was a mistake? In fact, let me ask that question.... Was having Switch out as the only single for going on 5 months a mistake? Was it good marketing for Lost and Found?

You've basically intimating that Will couldn't have done more to promote Lost and Found. By saying that, you're basically saying that having Switch out for going on 5 months is the best that Will could do. Do you really believe that Ted? Do you really believe that Will couldn't have performed other songs from Lost and Found. Are you saying that if Will had performed other songs from the album in addition to Switch, it would have made no difference, that it wouldn't have garnered more interest in the album and better sales, more buzz? Do you really believe that Switch, Gettin' Jiggy Wit It and Summertime were the best and only hopes to promote Lost and Found. 5 months guys. 5 months. Will has done quite a lot to promote Lost and Found indeed, but when 3 or 4 out of the 4 or 5 songs you're performing aren't on the album... come on. I know I can't be the only one on the forum who thinks that smarter marketing and a steadier release of singles would have helped the album... If the album were still selling 30-35k, we'd probably still be talking about a 4th single... but notice how all talk of a 4th single has disappered... People have been talking about how Will should be on mixtapes and a whole bunch of other stuff to get more respect in hip hop and promote the album... All that isn't necessary. He needs to go out and promote Lost and Found, not just Switch. Now he's going to start filming and he's releasing Party Starter. Someone earlier said that he's releasing Party Starter this late so that he can better promote it... That doesn't make sense when the movie he's staring in is in production and his ability to get out and promote the single and the album is therfore limited. What I think should have happened is that he should have released Party Starter a month to a month and a half ago. Performed it a few times to help it get it's legs, and let it dominate while he's filming... What happens is that classes are starting in the fall and it's gonna be spun at the parties and heard on campuses, so it should maintain while he's filming... When it falters.... Tell Me Why.... Yes... Will could have done a little more to promote Lost and Found. He's done a lot already, but he didn't do everything he could or even should have done. My hypothesis is that Overbrook is going for huge singles, and if the album benefits, good... if not... oh well. The thing is, Lost and Found deserves more than that.

I have to agree, and I understand why it can be frustrating. Why take news and links from this site and post it on the other site as if you're responsible for finding the info or getting the file or link... It's extremely disingenuous. It's also just asking to have your ip address banned. For those who do it any may be reading this, it's the main reason you don't get to see 80% of the media and news this site really provides... Don't bother coming here to look for the Party Starter video... we'll have it, but you won't find it.

Will himself has said that what he said was misconstrued. When Will mentioned "open marriage," he said he was talking about the honesty he and Jada share in their marriage, they are "open" with one another.

I'm not saying every everyone made that prediction. I highlight that to say that in general, people believed that it would do very well, and from the buzz it was creating, gold was expected and people were glad in general when it got there, but were still looking forward to platinum and even multiplatinum. But it's not a good sign when the fans are just ignoring the fact that the album just fell about 30 spots on the charts... An album as good as Lost and Found with the potential singles and the initial buzz it had in the hip hop circles shouldn't be at number 85 right now. I don't think there's any way you can realistically spin that to say that being at #85 right now is a bonus. It would probably be a bonus in the days of Born 2 Reign, but not now with the initial success it enjoyed and the way it was recieved in the market. That's almost like saying that everything after Wild Wild West and Bagger Vance is bonus. I don't know. Maybe my expecations are too high...

Um... lol, wasn't that me as well... :hmm:

Indeed...

I'm the first to agree that sales don't translate to quality, and in this age, vice versa... However, as fans of Will, we want the album to sell well. We're not talking about sales for the sake of sales... Lost and Found has a message, not just for the fans, but for everyone that listens to hip hop or claims to be about hip hop. The album needs to be promoted... it needs to be talked about, not just on this forum, but on boxden, the IC, and other general hip hop forums. It shouldn't be that the album come out at the end of March, is talked about for the first week of April, and then drops off the radar. There is no buzz for Lost and Found. That's the problem. We're talking about sales for the sake of people being exposed to real hip hop. We're talking about sales for the sake of kids who need to hear a positive message when everyday, craziness is engulfing them. We're talking about sales for the sake of parents who are tired of their kids listening to music about drugs and hoes, and dollars dollars... We're talking about sales for the sake of someone who has dug deep within himself to share apart of his life and his thoughts and deserves to be rewarded for it. This is why we're talking about sales. What better way to say, "Look, we're not going to listen to the foolishness that you're trying to pump into our homes anymore and your messages have to change" than by actually showing them that the people with positive messages who put thought and diversity into their music are the ones who are being supported. Lost and Found can do well. The reason it is where it is now and not at 800k or plat is because people stopped paying attention to it. It was hot for 2 weeks... everyone was talking about it, but then it faded into obscurity because the support it got upon it's original release fell off hard. What's worse, Switch is not fully representative of Lost and Found. Lost and Found is not really a party album, but those listening to it and it alone would really have no idea what the album was like. What's my point... We're not or at least I'm not worried that Lost and Found won't go 5x... I don't think anyone realistically expects it to sell that much. My thing is that it could have done a lot better than how it has done so far with a little more attention and better management. When we talk about sales, we're not talking about 50 cent numbers... Were talking about where the album is right now compared to where it should be.

Yeah look at Fat Joe, his single "Get It Poppin'" is one of the most popular songs of the summer but his album's gonna sell less than Bow Wow, lol, but why do we talk like "Party Starter"'ll save the album then? I'm happy with going gold here, I was worried that it'd even do that after the "Born To Reign" disaster and with mostly G Unit and Aftermath artists getting airplay and how much disrespect ol' school rappers get in the commercial scene, since MTV calls Eminem the original storyteller and ignores Slick Rick, I figured that nobody wanted to hear Will anymore, but it's reached my expectations and everything from this point on is a bonus, so I'm gonna chill! ← Couldn't Say it Any Better. Will made a comeback, no doubt about it. Everything from now really is just a bonus. ← Spin. If Will had sold 300k, people would be saying, see... he's on a comeback, he did better on Lost and Found than he did on Born 2 Reign... Spin... People were saying that it could sell 4x when the album leaked... now all of a sudden, anything over gold... even gold itself is bonus... platinum is a miracle... come on guys... Do you guys really believe that Lost and Found's #85 on the charts is a bonus?

Yeah look at Fat Joe, his single "Get It Poppin'" is one of the most popular songs of the summer but his album's gonna sell less than Bow Wow, lol, but why do we talk like "Party Starter"'ll save the album then? I'm happy with going gold here, I was worried that it'd even do that after the "Born To Reign" disaster and with mostly G Unit and Aftermath artists getting airplay and how much disrespect ol' school rappers get in the commercial scene, since MTV calls Eminem the original storyteller and ignores Slick Rick, I figured that nobody wanted to hear Will anymore, but it's reached my expectations and everything from this point on is a bonus, so I'm gonna chill! ← Ted, Gold was your expectation... wow... Even after hearing the album, you didn't think it could do better than that? I think that people are hoping that the Party Starter release will generate interest in the album again. It would have been best if that were done 2 months ago but beggars can't be choosers... Then again, people were being "optimistic" and saying that album sales were gonna stay high throughout the year, and that milking Switch was a good thing, so...