bigted

Hip-hop would be wack if 50 Cent or Will sold 10 million and nobody else sold anything 'cause no matter how much you may love/hate 50 Cent or Will, hip-hop is more than just one person/style, 90% of the videos can't look the same, it's many styles, hip-hop would be boring like pop 'cause every pop singer is singing the same things, that's why pop music ain't as popular as it once was, basically a lot of the other genres have a lot of artists sounding the same that's why they ain't as popular as hip-hop, hip-hop has always been fresh where different people could relate to different parts of it. I like a lil' bit of each but most only like a certain part of hip-hop like all gangsta, all party, or all conscious, but the one thing they got in common is that they're all hip-hop fans, and I think if it gets to the point where only gangsta rap or clean rap dominates is on the airwaves, it'll kill hip-hop no matter how much some might like it, there's starting to be more balance though, you got the Black Eyed Peas/Will for clean fun raps, you got Kanye/Common for conscious rap, and you got 50 Cent/Game doing gangsta rap, then you got Young Jeezy/Mike Jones doing crunk rap, if the media keeps the balance, it'll be aight ....

It's hard to believe now but Pete Rock and Teddy Riley were actually big name producers in the early '90s just like Kanye and Pharrell are now.....

Yeah Nelly's a JJFP fan, he said that a couple years ago to Will when he interviewed him on MTV.com

If I could email Chuck D and get him to post on this board, he'd probably agree with all the things I said in this thread, he's not as bitter towards the Sugar Hill Gang or new school rappers as KRS or some ol' school rappers are, his beef is towards BET/MTV/Viacom that ignore playing certain rappers on air, he said that he recorded a song with Nelly in one of his terrordomes last year and that he's a very nice guy, it never came out though, basically what I'm saying in this thread is what he says already, read his terrordomes, there's certain things he might not like about hip-hop now or even back then but there's certain thngs about any other genre of music that could be improved as well, nothing or nobody is perfect.... As wack as many say 50 Cent he still is a hip-hop artist, he's still an mc, just a sucka mc, that's all! :willvspaparazzi: FP ain't Common just like Jay-Z ain't Common, FP ain't Jay-Z either, every mc is different, it depends who you like when you consider them dope or wack, no matter who you like or don't like they're still hip-hop artists, that'd be as stupid as saying Britney ain't a pop singer even if I don't like her.... If hip-hop only has gangsta rappers, conscious rappers, or squeaky clean party rappers dominating the airwaves specificially, it'll get boring, it needs the balance it has to stay the top genre, we're starting to get balance again, we got Kanye, 50, and FP as the top selling mcs of 2005, that's what makes it better than other genres of music, if hip-hop had no conscious rappers in it, hip-hop would've been a novelty back then, NWA and Public Enemy brought in an audience that wanted more than party music, and if there was no party rappers, hip-hop'll sound too preachy and nerdy, kids who wanna have a good time wouldn't listen to it, it needs to have everything, that's why Chuck D has Flava Flav in Public Enemy, the comic relief of Flav compliments the thoughtful consciousness that Chuck has, that's why they worked out so well..... btw, take a look at what somebody on the Public Enemy forum said about LL Cool J, it reminds me of stuff that a lot of us'd say about 50 Cent, I guess he didn't read the terrordomes where Chuck gives LL props, some just hate everything and anything that gets airplay, even the pioneers of the game: "He should have a chat with Dead Prez, Krs or P.E. to get his head in order. If he could put his mind to it he would be great for the movement instead of always thinking about sales........" This is what I replied back, this could apply to 50 too 'cause he does respect conscious rappers like KRS-ONE, he just says dumb stuff to hype up his album that's all, now in no way am I saying he's on LL's level, I'm just stating that maybe people hate on 50 too hard, Kanye's just doing hype here too, I don't think he really hates 50: "LL does respect what Chuck D and KRS do politically but he said in an interview that he's different from them and he does his own thing. Hip-hop would be boring if we had every mc being political to me, just like it'd be with all the club tracks"

That's what I'm talking about, Will taking a break from movies is the best thing that all hip-hop fans could ask for from him!! :yeah:

Thanks for sharing that, I think DJ's don't get enough credit in hip-hop like they should, they get some but it's mostly the MC's that get talked about the most, especially now, but without the DJ's there wouldn't be MC's, there hasn't really been too many female DJ's that're famous, the only one I could think of is Spinderella from Salt-N-Pepa....

Well what about "Code Red"? Basically everyone on that album was the top producer of that time and that's considered a JJFP album right?

I personally disagree with you AJ, again it's all opinion, some people might say FP has no heart either for hip-hop 'cause he does more movies than music and a lot of people just call him a commercial rap sell-out.... Kanye West has heart in his music, he don't have a great flow but that don't mean he don't have heart, he puts a lot of positive content into his songs, even Chuck D would said that, I could even find his quote from his site if you don't believe me.... Will's friends with both 50 and Luda, I don't think he'd hang with heartless people..... A lot of the ol' school hip-hop songs were about money and being famous though, this didn't just start now, by your logic that means we wouldn't consider Sugar Hill Gang, LL Cool J, Run-Dmc, Eric B. and Rakim, MC Hammer, Slick Rick, Biz Markie, JJFP, Dana Dane, etc. hip-hop then since most of their songs were about money and being famous, they showed that in their videos and album covers, everything back then was party, party, and more partying, maybe a couple of serious songs in between but that's what most of today's mcs do as well, the pioneer mcs in the '70s were all party mcs, they did it to make people ignore the realities of the world, that's what the origination of hip-hop was, party music, the 1st famous song in hip-hop history was "Rapper's Delight", which is a big boast of money, fame, and sex which was the blueprint to what a lot have done since.... That's why some hip-hop purists think that conscious rap is the purist artform 'cause it's more than about partying, so that means only mcs like KRS, Chuck D, Ice Cube, Talib Kweli, Lauyrn Hill, and Dead Prez would be considered hip-hop then if we go by your logic, that's an ignorant thought though.... You see 50 Cent, Luda, Puffy, Jay-Z, and Lil' Jon with all of their club songs on the radio but they have a couple serious songs on their albums just like FP does(what was his FP's last 2 singles again?), it's not quite as good of course to me at least but they do have some heart.... Do you personally know anybody who listens to those mcs? They're affected by the music they buy, whether you'd admit it or not, the music touched their lives... Hip-hop is about entertainment and having fun and those kids who buy a Puffy album now might play it at parties or cars and enjoy it just like kids would 15 years ago when they bought an MC Hammer album, listen to it makes them feel better when they're having bad days, they need to be entertained, it touched their lives.... Hip-hop is many things but it is music most importantly, it makes you laugh, dance, cry, think, or even hate, whether you like it or not even the wack mcs affected you, you wouldn't go through all this trouble dissin' somebody if you weren't trying to make a point, every mc touches you when you're a fan of hip-hop...Think about this though, maybe those who're Public Enemy fans say the same things criticising a lot of mcs who ain't conscious like Public Enemy, in fact a read a post on the Public Enemy board last week and they were saying that LL should ask Chuck D for direction 'cause it seems like he's only making songs for money.... You claim that you like Nick Cannon and Black Eyed Peas but they also do a lot of club songs on the radio about money and fame on the radio as well, that means they have no heart either?.... Give it a rest man, you like who you like and leave it at that, there ain't no perfect list that defines what every hip-hop fan needs to listen to, not what MTV says, not what BET says, not what VH1 says, not what any magazine says, or not what any fan says, not even what any mc says, we all like who we like, whether we listen to 1000 mcs or 5 mcs, even if everyone heard 1000 mcs they'd still make different lists 'cause everyone has different tastes, there's no definitive lists, the only thing definitive is that we're all fans.... How could you compare MC Hammer to Chuck D? How could you compare LL Cool J to Scarface? It's different styles all in one genre, it depends what you like more....

That was me, I would like to see Jazzy scratching on the singles that'll be produced by kanye and pharrell, maybe since will ain't on columbia they won't turn the volume of the scratches down :kekeke: then the rest of the album we'll just have JJFP, 2 turntables and a mic, no hype, no drama, just real hip-hop for the suckas in '06 :wiggle:

Well next year they'll be giving the comeback award to Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Prince, I have a feeling this year'll be even bigger than last... :yeah:

Great artists don't worry about record sales and all that hype, all that really matters is that JJFP have the drive to put out another great album and the rest'll take care of itself, there's nobody in hip-hop quite like JJFP, the world needs JJFP to come back.... Will still got plenty of star power, to go almost platinum with s*** promotion is something only he could do, only 10 other hip-hop artists sold more than him last year, "Lost and Found" was capable of selling 10 million if he got 50 Cent promotion, maybe getting off of Interscope would be a start for JJFP, they need to go to a label that'll promote them well, maybe Def Jam like I've been saying all along... btw, street cred in hip-hop don't sell a lot of albums, promotion does, why didn't "The Magnificent" go platinum then? For JJFP to sell more, they need to do somethin' fresh for the '06, sounding too ol' school won't get millions sold, I have confidance they could do somethin' like they did for "Willenium" which was the unofficial JJFP comeback album of 2000 and it could go double platinum just like then....

I ain't a huge Black Eyed Peas fan but it'd be dope if they outsold 50 Cent, I think Mariah outsold 50 Cent too now, who knows even Jamie Foxx might even outsell 50 Cent, I guess 50's gonna have to start beef with all of them if he wants his top spot again.... :willvspaparazzi:

I doubt that even AJ with his big music collection has heard something from every hip-hop artist on this list, they list 50 Cent too btw so he is a hip-hop artist even though most of us on this board agree with Kanye and don't like him, lol: http://www.ohhla.com/all.html We really don't know who the best mc is if we haven't listened to everybody but most likely the ones who get on the radio are the best ones in the game 'cause it's like basketball, there's millions who play but only a handful actually make the NBA, There's probably some who ain't in the game that could compete with the big boys but most of them would get crushed, that's why they're amateurs, it's like what LL said in "4,3,2,1":"When you wanna get on the mic/With all the big boys and live up to the real hype/it's like picking up a ball and playing with Mike/Swinging with Ken Griffey or challanging Roy to a fight/snappin' you amateur mcs/don't you know I make the dream team touring overseas?".... btw, if some ol' school hip-hop fans like AJ wanna complain about rappers glorifying money and jewlery, what about LL Cool J's "Walking With A Panther" cover or Eric B. and Rakim's "Paid In Full" cover? They looked like Cash Money Millionaire covers of today.... Slick Rick sporting all that jewlery in his videos just like Jay-Z does now? Money makes the world go 'round but everybody has more to express than that if they're really human, there's nothing wrong with celebrating success, whether you're a manager at a store or a famous rapper.... Now as far as what Turntable said in there, yes Will has developed as an artist quite a bit from the early JJFP days, sure he had a great flow and the songs were great but Will has covered more topics on his recent albums than he did back then, he's shown that he's more than just another party rapper and that's made him relevant longer than most from the ol' school era, he always brings new content to the table, as much as I like KRS and Rakim but they haven't really brought anything new to the table lately, they still could flow better than ever but ultimately that's why they're not as famous as they once were, they still rhyme the same things they rhymed about 15 years ago, that's fine with them though if they wanna stay true to themselves and their few loyal fans... Some of the ol' school fans might of turned on Will 'cause he ain't doing another "He's The DJ"/"Homebase" album, but maybe they stayed loyal to KRS 'cause he's doing the same things he did the early BDP albums, Rakim's still rhyming the same things he rhymed about on the early Eric B. and Rakim albums.... Who knows maybe Ludacris and 50 Cent might develop as they get older too with their song content if they're gonna stay in the game as long as Will or else their careers will end soon...

Well it looks like everyone's broke after Christmas, lol, everybody's sales went down this week: "Foxx Overtakes Blige On Album Chart January 04, 2006, 11:40 AM ET Katie Hasty, N.Y. After debuting a week ago at No. 2, Jamie Foxx's "Unpredictable" rises to the top of The Billboard 200. The J Records set makes the upward move despite a 67% slip to sales of 200,000 copies in the United States, according to Nielsen Soundscan. "Unpredictable" is the first album to ascend to the top without having debuted at No. 1 since February 2005, when Ray Charles' "Genius Loves Company" (Hear Music/Concord) pulled off the feat. Foxx also becomes the fourth artist to have won an Academy Award for acting (ironically for his portrayal of Charles in "Ray") and achieved a No. 1 album. In typical post-holiday fashion, nearly every album on The Billboard 200 saw a decrease in sales in the final week of 2005. Overall sales dipped 50% compared to the previous week at 17 million units. Sales were up 5% compared to the same week in 2004, but the year's sales ended down 9% compared to the previous at 619 million units. As Foxx's album rises to No. 1, Mary J. Blige's "The Breakthrough" (Geffen) falls to No. 2 a week after debuting on top. Sales decreased by 74% at 193,000 copies. Eminem's Shady/Aftermath/Interscope retrospective "Curtain Call: The Hits" climbs 4-3 at 186,000 units (-57%), switching places with the Notorious B.I.G.'s "Duets: The Final Chapter" at 150,000 units (-66%). "American Idol" winner Carrie Underwood's "Some Hearts" stays put at No. 5 with 135,000 (-66%), while the 20th volume in the BMG/Zomba/EMI/UME "NOW That's What I Call Music!" hits compilation series rises 7-6 with 104,000 units (-63%) and Nickelback's "All the Right Reasons" (Roadrunner) ascends 9-7 with 103,000 copies (-61%). In its 38th week on the chart, Mariah Carey's "The Emancipation of Mimi" (Island Def Jam) falls 6-8 on a 65% drop in sales to 102,000 copies. Although the album ranked fourth in the context of Billboard's 2005 chart year, which ended in November, "Mimi" was the best seller within the calendar year, according to Nielsen SoundScan, moving slightly less than 4.97 million copies. Black Eyed Peas' "Monkey Business" re-enters the top tier with an 11-9 move based on sales of 98,000 copies (-56%), while Chris Brown finishes out the top 10 as his self-titled Jive album rises 12-10 with sales of 90,000 (-57%). A slow week for new releases translates into a slow week for debuts, with Ying Yang Twins' "U.S.A. Still United" (TVT) as The Billboard 200's top entry at No. 45, and the sole title to bow in the top half of the tally. The CD/DVD set features remixes and videos of some tracks from the duo's "U.S.A. (United State of Atlanta)" (which re-enters the album chart at No. 176) plus a handful of new songs.

Well whether you put Eminem or FP in your top 10 all-time lists, it'd be that they're your favorites, that's why I said that, you really can't judge who's the top mcs unless you listen to every mc in the world, and nobody has, it's all opinion, I have about 200 CDs, 100 cassettes, and some stuff downloaded but it's not all hip-hop, I like a lil' bit of other music too but hip-hop is the top choice though of preference for me, I ain't gonna front though I got a Backstreet Boys cassette, lol. Even Kool Moe Dee's book is opinion 'cause I'm sure he hasn't listen to everybody but I bet he's listened to more than most fans would so it's easier to understand his opinion 'cause he's been down with hip-hop since the beginning, he's probably heard about 1000 mcs. Now if KRS is gonna discredit Sugar Hill Gang 'cause they weren't the original rap group, then he'd have to discredit Eminem 'cause he wasn't the original hardcore white rapper, there was many groups that never got signed from the golden era way before Sugar Hill Gang just like there was many hardcore white rappers who never got signed before Eminem, and Dr. Dre has a team of ghostwriters but supposedly 40% of the hip-hop community has them too, so what exactly is pure? KRS also said in that speech that the rappers who sell 10 million, 20 million albums don't know what hip-hop is, that's obviously a biased statement probably from his beef with Nelly, but Nelly knows hip-hop and so do the other rap artists who've sold 10 million, 20 albums like JJFP, MC Hammer, 2Pac, Jay-Z, Biggie, Beastie Boys, LL Cool J, and even Eminem and Vanilla Ice, they all know hip-hop, it's just the matter of opinion of who you like and don't like, like as wack as I think Nelly, Eminem, and Vanilla Ice are they're still hip-hop or if somebody disses JJFP, LL, and MC Hammer, they're still hip-hop, like A-Plus said on "Stay On Your Toes": "Nowadays I hear the same crap Complain rap is trendy not to give anybody with a name dap When did that start It sound childish You went to college but I think you need some extra mileage Underground cats disrespect who that don't listen to (Yeah!) If you looked at my CD rack they'd (you'll) probably diss me to That's so weak Don't speak when a niggarole creep Or I'm finna go deep I heard a MC in a cipher straight lyin' Damn the cryin', talkin' bout real Hip-Hop's dyin' That's some dumb **** That's what I was thinkin' (Uh-huh) But I didn't say nothin' to him cause I knew that I been drinkin' He must be blind as hell Hip-Hop is alive and well He ain't got the mind to tell" :word:

Puffy signed Heavy D to Bad Boy a couple years ago and we're still waiting for the album, Kel Spencer helped Heavy D with writing it too, I wish that Puffy would put working on his album on hold and drop this one first but that won't happen, lol....

That's actually pretty much similar to my top 20 favorite mcs of all time, except for a couple, I try to give new stuff a listen but I can't really hold it up to the ol' school mcs but at least I give it a listen, basically I'm trying to not diss new school rappers so much anymore 'cause I don't like people dissin' my favorite ol' school rappers so much, maybe if I stop dissin' maybe they'll learn to open up to my opinion, it's useless to fight forever over it...

Lots of rappers sample Stevie Wonder but how many could actually say they got him in their video?!! :mygod: :bowdown:

I didn't see anything wrong with what Frenetic said honestly, nobody's top 10 list is a fact that everybody has to like, I'd consider it garbage when somebody puts Eminem in their top 10 favorites, I wouldn't go as far as calling them fags though 'cause that's their taste, I could argue with them till I pass out tellin' them they don't know real hip-hop and they'll still feel the same way so what's the point, "Wave 'Em Off" if you don't like their opinion, but people consider it garbage and won't consider me a real hip-hop fan if I put FP in my top 10 favorites, everybody should have their own opinions but shouldn't have to constantly beef over them FP likes some mainstream mcs Jay-Z and underground mcs like Dead Prez, now that's the definition of a real hip-hop head ..... Yes a lot think commercial rap is garbage but some people think all commercial rap is garbage including the real mcs in it like FP and LL Cool J 'cause of the thought that they're only in it for making more money than they're beloved underground mcs are or for the fact they'll actually collab with some mainstream rappers they don't like, some consider Common a sellout for doing a whole album with Kanye West, you wanna see cats like Common blow up but some people hate mainstream so much that they'll diss their favorite underground mc if he blows up, some just think that anybody that goes platinum is a sell-out before they actually heard the music, and at the same time a lot of people who listen to mainstream hip-hop ignore underground.... If all of FP's albums flopped and he never performed on MTV, maybe more underground fans would love him but then commercial fans wouldn't care for him, what's a man to do, lol?.... He wasn't necessarily referring to you 'cause you give everything a listen before you diss and that's your opinion but you open up your mind to everything out there, some just put themselves in a box to a certain thing and if it's anything else they won't like it before they even give it a chance, you can't speak for every real hip-hop head and say that every hip-hop head don't like Kanye West and Ludacris 'cause that's not true, that's how you feel... LL Cool J collabed with Ludacris and Chuck D said in one of his recent terrordomes that he likes the messages Kanye West gives in his music so that means they ain't real? You could think that Lil' Kim is trashy, I might even agree some with that, but hey FP collabed with her so she must not be that wack, and if somebody thinks she's the greatest that's their opinion, they're not fags if they like somebody I don't, they shouldn't diss who I like though.... btw, as much as I think KRS is the greatest mc ever, I'm dissapointed that he'd say it's Sugar Hill Gang's fault for turning hip-hop from a true artform to a watered down pop rap scene, sometimes he sounds too much like a hip-hop purist I must admit but then he looks hypocritical for giving props to Eminem and Dr. Dre, how could you claim to be real hip-hop acting that way? I mean Sugar Hill Gang done more positive things for hip-hop than Eminem and Dr. Dre could ever do, Eminem, Dr. Dre, and even KRS wouldn't be able to make a living off of hip-hop if it wasn't for Sugar Hill Gang, KRS would still be homeless today or even dead, he should kissing their feet not stepping on them like that, they help open the doors for everyone, I wonder what'd conclude in KRS' logic that Sugar Hill Gang ruined hip-hop, deep down that dissapoints me a lil' bit that KRS would talk like that, ever since I heard that speech audio I've lost some respect for him as a person, that's foul to say that, just as ignorant if not more ignorant than some of the stuff Kanye says....

Nice to see them showing love to Will there!!! :yeah:

:word: I don't care if somebody told me 50 Cent or somebody else wrote "Candy Shop", I'd still tell you it sucks, just like I still think "The Message" is the greatest hip-hop song I heard even if not every Furious Five member actually wrote it or not, I still think too that Salt-N-Pepa are one of the greatest groups of all time even if they didn't write their rhymes.... Haters use ghostwriting as an exuse not to like an artist, they might've heard that Nas helped Will write some songs on "Big Willie Style" and overexagerate it to make it look like Will's wack 'cause he don't write any of his rhymes, but the truth is their favorite gangsta rapper probably had help on their songs too but they wouldn't admit that though, lol, just like they dissed Will for doing a freestyle on the radio that was a song on his album but Snoop does the same thing too, he'll freestyle songs that're actually on his album when he's on the radio, a lot of ol' school mcs in the '70s used to write their freestyles down before they'd go to the party, it ain't nothin' new, for all we know Jay-Z probably writes down his songs too at his house and memorises them, then making it look like he just does it off the top of his head, we'd never know for sure 'cause we don't live with him, even if he did that, he's still a talented mc, or if he really does it the way he says he does it too, people'd still feel or diss the songs the same way.....

:word:

That's what people'd like to see more of, mcs going up against each other on stage, not them just making songs about each other, Em and Bis made a lot of songs dissin' each but they never battled live, that's what's missing in the rap game now, we'd really see who has the most skills, have mcs go on 106 & Park and TRL and battle live on air....

The thing is with ghostwriters, people on forums make up a lot of stuff that's not true and some people read it and they believe it, like if I said KRS-ONE ghostwrote for Dr. Dre on this board or vice versa, then some people here believed it and told other people then it'd be a fake rumor spreading, you don't know who's ghostwriting, ghostwriting's a mystery, Jay-Z didn't write "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It", that was just something a random hater'd say, don't believe everything you hear or read... :rofl: Kel Spencer's credited for writing songs with Will but Darren Henson's credited for producing songs with Jazzy Jeff, ain't that the same difference? As long as JJFP are involved with creating the song is all that should matter, now if you don't see their names in the credits at all like some other rap artists, then there should be an issue.... :bat:

I think people probably protested Kanye West 'cause the most serious songs he released from "College Dropout" like "Jesus Walks" and "Through The Wire" weren't written by just Kanye, Rhymefest was credited as a co-writer for "Jesus Walks" and I don't see Kanye's name credited on "Through The Wire", he wrote basically everything else on there himself but they weren't really as deep as those songs according to most people, most people thought "Jesus Walks' and 'Through The Wire' were the highlights of that album, I don't recognise the names that're credited though for "Through The Wire"..... Ghostwriting ain't really a new issue for hip-hop either, remember "Rapper's Delight"? Melle Mel was the only mc on the Furious Five who wrote a verse on the message according to what they said in a hip-hop book "Can't Stop, Won't Stop", the rest of that song was written by the SugarHillRecords writers who'd write songs for them and Sugar Hill Gang, Run-Dmc said that LL Cool J wrote some of their earlier songs, Kurtis Blow said he had DJ Run write some stuff with him too, you'll see their names on the remastered albums but on the ol' school rap ablums they didn't have credits, ghostwriting always existed, as long as the songs are good, who cares, songs are different than freestylin', it takes more effort to make a good song than it does to spit a few punchlines, songs consist more than just punchlines.... I think the thing is, the people who're acting like ghostwriting is a new issue are the ones who don't like the hip-hop songs that're currently being released, but this was something going on in the golden era of hip-hop too, think about it a lot of the big name mcs had other mcs/ non performing songwriters write for/with them even then, before "Rapper's Delight", nobody made songs, they were just freestylin' in the parks to DJ'in, the only truely way hip-hop'll go back to the original roots is if mcs stop making songs and just freestyle with DJ'ing, lol....