bigted

Lots of rappers sample Stevie Wonder but how many could actually say they got him in their video?!! :mygod: :bowdown:

I didn't see anything wrong with what Frenetic said honestly, nobody's top 10 list is a fact that everybody has to like, I'd consider it garbage when somebody puts Eminem in their top 10 favorites, I wouldn't go as far as calling them fags though 'cause that's their taste, I could argue with them till I pass out tellin' them they don't know real hip-hop and they'll still feel the same way so what's the point, "Wave 'Em Off" if you don't like their opinion, but people consider it garbage and won't consider me a real hip-hop fan if I put FP in my top 10 favorites, everybody should have their own opinions but shouldn't have to constantly beef over them FP likes some mainstream mcs Jay-Z and underground mcs like Dead Prez, now that's the definition of a real hip-hop head ..... Yes a lot think commercial rap is garbage but some people think all commercial rap is garbage including the real mcs in it like FP and LL Cool J 'cause of the thought that they're only in it for making more money than they're beloved underground mcs are or for the fact they'll actually collab with some mainstream rappers they don't like, some consider Common a sellout for doing a whole album with Kanye West, you wanna see cats like Common blow up but some people hate mainstream so much that they'll diss their favorite underground mc if he blows up, some just think that anybody that goes platinum is a sell-out before they actually heard the music, and at the same time a lot of people who listen to mainstream hip-hop ignore underground.... If all of FP's albums flopped and he never performed on MTV, maybe more underground fans would love him but then commercial fans wouldn't care for him, what's a man to do, lol?.... He wasn't necessarily referring to you 'cause you give everything a listen before you diss and that's your opinion but you open up your mind to everything out there, some just put themselves in a box to a certain thing and if it's anything else they won't like it before they even give it a chance, you can't speak for every real hip-hop head and say that every hip-hop head don't like Kanye West and Ludacris 'cause that's not true, that's how you feel... LL Cool J collabed with Ludacris and Chuck D said in one of his recent terrordomes that he likes the messages Kanye West gives in his music so that means they ain't real? You could think that Lil' Kim is trashy, I might even agree some with that, but hey FP collabed with her so she must not be that wack, and if somebody thinks she's the greatest that's their opinion, they're not fags if they like somebody I don't, they shouldn't diss who I like though.... btw, as much as I think KRS is the greatest mc ever, I'm dissapointed that he'd say it's Sugar Hill Gang's fault for turning hip-hop from a true artform to a watered down pop rap scene, sometimes he sounds too much like a hip-hop purist I must admit but then he looks hypocritical for giving props to Eminem and Dr. Dre, how could you claim to be real hip-hop acting that way? I mean Sugar Hill Gang done more positive things for hip-hop than Eminem and Dr. Dre could ever do, Eminem, Dr. Dre, and even KRS wouldn't be able to make a living off of hip-hop if it wasn't for Sugar Hill Gang, KRS would still be homeless today or even dead, he should kissing their feet not stepping on them like that, they help open the doors for everyone, I wonder what'd conclude in KRS' logic that Sugar Hill Gang ruined hip-hop, deep down that dissapoints me a lil' bit that KRS would talk like that, ever since I heard that speech audio I've lost some respect for him as a person, that's foul to say that, just as ignorant if not more ignorant than some of the stuff Kanye says....

Nice to see them showing love to Will there!!! :yeah:

:word: I don't care if somebody told me 50 Cent or somebody else wrote "Candy Shop", I'd still tell you it sucks, just like I still think "The Message" is the greatest hip-hop song I heard even if not every Furious Five member actually wrote it or not, I still think too that Salt-N-Pepa are one of the greatest groups of all time even if they didn't write their rhymes.... Haters use ghostwriting as an exuse not to like an artist, they might've heard that Nas helped Will write some songs on "Big Willie Style" and overexagerate it to make it look like Will's wack 'cause he don't write any of his rhymes, but the truth is their favorite gangsta rapper probably had help on their songs too but they wouldn't admit that though, lol, just like they dissed Will for doing a freestyle on the radio that was a song on his album but Snoop does the same thing too, he'll freestyle songs that're actually on his album when he's on the radio, a lot of ol' school mcs in the '70s used to write their freestyles down before they'd go to the party, it ain't nothin' new, for all we know Jay-Z probably writes down his songs too at his house and memorises them, then making it look like he just does it off the top of his head, we'd never know for sure 'cause we don't live with him, even if he did that, he's still a talented mc, or if he really does it the way he says he does it too, people'd still feel or diss the songs the same way.....

:word:

That's what people'd like to see more of, mcs going up against each other on stage, not them just making songs about each other, Em and Bis made a lot of songs dissin' each but they never battled live, that's what's missing in the rap game now, we'd really see who has the most skills, have mcs go on 106 & Park and TRL and battle live on air....

The thing is with ghostwriters, people on forums make up a lot of stuff that's not true and some people read it and they believe it, like if I said KRS-ONE ghostwrote for Dr. Dre on this board or vice versa, then some people here believed it and told other people then it'd be a fake rumor spreading, you don't know who's ghostwriting, ghostwriting's a mystery, Jay-Z didn't write "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It", that was just something a random hater'd say, don't believe everything you hear or read... :rofl: Kel Spencer's credited for writing songs with Will but Darren Henson's credited for producing songs with Jazzy Jeff, ain't that the same difference? As long as JJFP are involved with creating the song is all that should matter, now if you don't see their names in the credits at all like some other rap artists, then there should be an issue.... :bat:

I think people probably protested Kanye West 'cause the most serious songs he released from "College Dropout" like "Jesus Walks" and "Through The Wire" weren't written by just Kanye, Rhymefest was credited as a co-writer for "Jesus Walks" and I don't see Kanye's name credited on "Through The Wire", he wrote basically everything else on there himself but they weren't really as deep as those songs according to most people, most people thought "Jesus Walks' and 'Through The Wire' were the highlights of that album, I don't recognise the names that're credited though for "Through The Wire"..... Ghostwriting ain't really a new issue for hip-hop either, remember "Rapper's Delight"? Melle Mel was the only mc on the Furious Five who wrote a verse on the message according to what they said in a hip-hop book "Can't Stop, Won't Stop", the rest of that song was written by the SugarHillRecords writers who'd write songs for them and Sugar Hill Gang, Run-Dmc said that LL Cool J wrote some of their earlier songs, Kurtis Blow said he had DJ Run write some stuff with him too, you'll see their names on the remastered albums but on the ol' school rap ablums they didn't have credits, ghostwriting always existed, as long as the songs are good, who cares, songs are different than freestylin', it takes more effort to make a good song than it does to spit a few punchlines, songs consist more than just punchlines.... I think the thing is, the people who're acting like ghostwriting is a new issue are the ones who don't like the hip-hop songs that're currently being released, but this was something going on in the golden era of hip-hop too, think about it a lot of the big name mcs had other mcs/ non performing songwriters write for/with them even then, before "Rapper's Delight", nobody made songs, they were just freestylin' in the parks to DJ'in, the only truely way hip-hop'll go back to the original roots is if mcs stop making songs and just freestyle with DJ'ing, lol....

You could look at the credits for "Lost and Found" and see that Will wrote all the serious songs on there himself like "Tell Me Why", "Loretta", "Could U Love Me", "Mr. Nice Guy", and "Ms. Holy Roller", he only had Kel Spencer(AKA Lennie Bennett) help him on the upbeat tracks like "Party Starter", "Switch", and "Pump Ya Brakes", Will probably gives him credit 'cause he wants to help a young brotha make the game, he ain't selfish, there's nothing wrong with that.... btw is D. Lewis Skillz?, that's the name I see on "Lost and Found" next to Will Smith and the producer on that credit.... You look at all the top artists of all time like The Beatles, Elvis, Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, and James Brown, they write basically everything they've done, even if they had co-writers, they were always involved with their writing, you have to write your lyrics to be a great artist, no question....

:word: Music is music, so what Will's mainstream too, ain't he? There's probably as many underground fans that don't like Will like they don't like Kanye, when I posted on an underground hip-hop site saying that I like Will, they called me a fag and need to listen to some real hip-hop, they probably didn't even listen to any of Will's albums but they hate on him 'cause he's selling millions while nobody knows their favorite underground mc, they don't realise that Will respect underground hip-hop cats too, he's a true hip-hop head that they'd like if they actually gave him a listen....

Let's be real if Will sold double platinum for "Born To Reign", Puffy would've allowed the songs he recorded for "Bad Boys II" soundtrack to be on there, but since it flopped Puffy wouldn't put them on there..... Puffy uses a lot of those rappers he signs as ghostwriters, Black Rob and Loon basically wrote his last couple albums, then again they probably make more that way than if their careers actually blew up somewhere else, lol....

The reason why their might be 5 names on the credits is 'cause besides the name of the artist performing the song if they actually wrote any of the song, maybe a co-writer, there's a producer(s) unless they produce it themselves, and the name of the people they sample would be on the track too along with the people who produced for their song too, for example I'm gonna show you if I had Jazzy Jeff produce a track for me, and we sample a song by Keith Sweat that was originally produced by Teddy Riley, btw my real name is G. Miller if you wonder who that is, for the sake of the argument I'll have fuq co-write the lyrics with me(M.Fuqua) a lot of times you wouldn't know about ghostwriters 'cause they ain't credited that's why they're ghostwriters, there's a lot of rumors about so many people using ghostwriters but you wouldn't know for sure, Kel Spencer might be credited for writing some stuff with Will but he's a co-writer 'cause Will's credited for writing the lyrics too, that means he probably just helps Will fix a couple lines in the verse, anyway this is what the credit would like for me: (G.Miller, J.Townes, M.Fuqua, K.Sweat,T.Riley) A lot of times you'll see that more than one person produces a track too, wouldn't that be considered co-producing and if it ain't credited it's ghostproducing? You see Andre Harris and Darren Hansen produced a lot of the tracks with Jazzy on "Willenium", so r they considered co-producers? Like there's a rumor that Pharrell produced "Rump Shaker" for Teddy Riley but only Teddy Riley's credited for producing the track, so would Pharrell be a ghostproducer if that was true? I found it kinda funny that people'd protest Kanye West for having Rhymefest ghostwrite for him when he was nominated for a Grammy while Dr. Dre and Puffy won Grammies without writing any of his songs, you look at their credits and they ain't credited for writing their h own songs, maybe for producing, that doesn't make sense, they should take their Grammies away if they're gonna protest Kanye, Kanye writes most of his rhymes unlike them even though their not really that good in my opinion, lol. I don't think Will had any co-writers in the JJFP days, it's ever since he started doing movies, he probably needs a lil' help 'cause he probably don't have a lot of time to proofread his rhymes like he used to, I don't see nothing wrong with that, when it's time to perform he always rocks the house and that's the most important thing about an mc like it was stated in that interview, some cats might write rhymes for other people to make money instead of doing shows 'cause when they perform people boo them, lol... btw if I'm not mistaken I think AJ has a "Source interview" from the late 90s where Will denies having ghostwriters when they asked him, he should post it for us....

Well if Skillz mentioned Will he'd say: "If you were wondering why you felt Will Smith's "Lost and Found" track It's 'cause I went in and wrote that! " :kekeke:

Rappers that keep on addressing rappers like 50 Cent and Eminem only bring more attention to 50 Cent and Eminem more than anything, it's good that Kanye has heart to say something like that about 50 Cent but the only way 50 Cent is gonna fall off is if people start ignoring him, once 50 loses hype nobody'll listen to him anymore, he needs hype 'cause that's the only skill he has.....

The thing that's a lil' wack that Diddy put only big name artists on there on the most part, but nobody'd buy it if they put dope mcs that're less popular than those on there, that's what it came down to, Puffy's trying to revive his label and he knows that Heavy D's album won't sell much so he puts the Biggie duets album instead, lol, it's kinda sad though that Biggie would probably be irrelevant right now if he was still alive unless he kept on doing commercial songs with Puffy, that's the only way he'd still be putting out multi-platinum albums, if he went back to the gritty street stuff on "Ready To Die" he wouldn't be selling anything now that's for damn sure, maybe Puffy wouldn't even step on the mic so much if Biggie was alive though, lol.... Pac left working with Dr. Dre so he wouldn't sell much either, only the ones who work with Dre are the big sellers in the rap game now.... You see how a lot of rappers that were popular when Biggie and Pac died are irrelevant now(examples: Warren G, Coolio, Craig Mack), while it seems that the death of Biggie and Pac kept them more popular than any mc alive, kinda sad, there hasn't been much out lately but the veteran mcs that're living get pushed to the sidelines... I mean they were great mcs though, no disrespect meant, but there was also other great mcs out at that time too that got slept on, it's sorta unfair that their deaths hyped them to be larger than life while a lot of dope mcs that're living get slept on continually....

All music has a message to it though, the thing is though singers could get record deals singing somebody else's songs like they do on 'American Idol' for instance, but with hip-hop you have to be original and move the crowd with your own lyrics and energetic flow of the lyrics to get signed, that's where you could say the similar thing between hip-hop and other music when it comes to performance, 2 people could say the same thing but the one that could move the crowd better will get the victory but you gotta be original with your lyrics in hip-hop, all artists should be involved with writing their lyrics, I don't mind if somebody lends a hand when it comes to song concept but if you don't write any of your lyrics, it's hard to call you an artist, I'm sure Marvin Gaye had a hand in the writing table, I don't think he just sat there and had people just write of all of his lyrics for him.... I don't like it that Puffy boasts about writing checks instead of lyrics, that's fake, lol.....

Here's another article on it: http://www.warwickuk.com/external.php?lu=h...5-11%2F&rn=News "MC's Not Writing Lyrics Ghostwriters could be getting more common in hip hop - it's being claimed up to 40% of US tracks aren't written by the rappers spitting them. It could range from a writer helping an MC with a few lines to them penning entire tracks. Having other people write your lyrics happens all the time in the pop world, but is hip hop progressing the same way? TXU's Nick Davis caught up with XXL journalist Adam Matthews, Kanye protégé Rhymefest and J Records artist Smitty to find out. Listen to their chat here So is it all about collaboration or are hip hop stars using ghostwriters cos they lack lyrical prowess? Do you care if a rapper's lyrics aren't all their own? Is it OK for an MC to have killer flow without lyrical ability? Do you see hip hop going the way of pop? A lot of big artists are producers first and foremost - is it cool for them to collaborate? CHARL.T If it's a concious hip hop track or one of true meaning it has to be written by the artist otherwise it's just not credible and the artist ends up looking a fake. radical I tink pop's rubbish yeh and i don't tink hip hop should b goin like dis. Hip hop ain't just bout da musik, it's also bout how da artist feels and how into da lyrics dey r and da meanin behind dem. If they got sum1 else writin 4 dem den it don't really have da same effect. adamC I don't have any time for rappers that don't write their own lyrics. For singers it's different because if a singer has a good voice it doesn't really matter if they wrote the songs themselves - its still going to sound good. But if an mc doesn't write their lyrics it's a different story. Rap is all about the lyrics and the lyrics make or break a rap record. If the guy doesnt write his own songs it's going to take away from the musical experience. It just sounds fake, talking about other peoples lives and rapping from other peoples viewpoints. Most rap fans care about the lyrics and meaning of the songs rather than the flow. Shaolin I think that as an MC it is a requirement for you to be able to write the majority of your lyrics, although to be fair there have been occasions where artists have admirably carried songs they didn't write - I doubt anyone would complain as long as these artists still get the royalties! sci bucks i feel it really takes away from the whole game - hip hop is life - its meant to be real! dis whole game has fallen away from its original roots. what ever happened to sayin wat u mean and meanin wat u say - i love hip hop and hate dis all bout money rap game!!! joka a.ka P'Lyrical Teraspitz a.k.a Verbal Abuse wats da point of having a good flow or lyrical content if u dnt write it. To me lyrics are thoughts and feelings, so wats da point expressin sum1 elses thoughts. i write my own bars and will never let sum1 ghostwrite 4 me, but watch out b'cos every1's guna try copy and hate my style. duane "lil bear" mcguire i think its a cheap way into the industry an if u cant write dont rap simple all you fakers who r using ghostwriters need to move over cuz there's plenty of sick uk rappers who write there own songs and r willin to put in work Tisha As a writer and producer myself, people don't understand how hard it may be for some people, there is such a thing as writer's block. smokey robinson has written over 10,000 songs over the years. but also there's people like kanye west and pharell that you'd wish didn't write their own lyrics. Tai Monoup I think the reason we have such a hard time dealing with the whole 'ghost' issue is because we totally buy into the messages that most MCs spit as truth, to a degree. The reason we easily digest the fact that singers get stuff writen for them is that we tend to separate the singer from the song - maybe because the subject matter of most r'n'b tracks tends to be a little superficial. If we learnt that Bob's Redemption Song, or Marvin's What's Going On was written by someone else, we'd probably have a hard time dealing wid that too. Maybe the fact that MCs have more freedom to show more of their personality in a rhyme than a singer would have in a song makes hip-hop more personal. Max There is music like album fillers which you just listen to, usually while doing something else- like a lot of pop music it simply sounds good. Ghost writings fine for this. But then there are tracks which are meaningful to the rapper- the kind of song you can listen doing nothing else 'cos the lyrics are so deep. you cant have this ghostwritten, people take it to mean something to the rapper- its just lying to the listeners."

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/07/28/173121.php Ghostwriting & Hip-Hop July 28, 2003 Michael Seneadza Droppin' Science: Critical Essays on Rap Music and Hip Hop Culture (Critical Perspectives on the Past) William Eric Perkins Book Yesterday I was having a discussion about whether or not Dr. Dre can be considered a rapper. The discussion quickly digressed into the topic of ghostwriting. For those that don't know, here's a definition of a ghostwriter -- 'One who writes for and gives credit of authorship to another'. The practice of ghostwriting in hip-hop has always carried a certain stigma. That is to say that no self-respecting MC would be caught dead reciting rhymes written by someone else. Yet we know the practice takes place. Jay-Z once told Vibe magazine that "I get paid a lot of money to not tell you who I write for." It's widely known that Dr. Dre's lyrics have been written by The D.O.C., Ice Cube, Snoop, Jay-Z, Eminem, etc. I'm pretty sure Puffy doesn't write all (any?) of his own lyrics. Da Brat has written for Jermaine Dupri. (no comment!) And didn't Nas write some stuff for Will Smith one of Will's latest albums? Who knows how many other examples are out there. This raises several questions for me. Why aren't singers and musicians held to the same standard as rappers? Musicians aren't chastised if they play music that they didn't compose. Great singers aren't ridiculed for singing the words of someone else. Would it be better if the liner notes explicitly said 'written by XYZ', instead of trying to be stealth about it? (For that matter, does the average person even read the liner notes?) Is writing your own lyrics an essential part of being a true MC? Is that part of what differentiates an MC from a rapper? Will the stigma ever go away? THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EMCEES BACK IN THE DAY & TODAYS RAPPERS BY J.D.L You asked me Troy L. to explain my point of view of the difference between Hip Hop back in my era in comparison to now. Well first let me tell you that there’s a big difference between m.c.s and rappers. Rappers make rap records and are in the game for the sole purpose of monetary gain and fame. They have no love for the microphone or hip-hop, which consists of 4 elements - D.J.ing, Emceeing, Graffiti and Break Dancing!!! And I support this fact with pure evidence. Check it! Every time there is an anniversary for Rock Steady, Zulu Nation or the Cold Crush or even Disco King Mario do you see any of these rap stars or do you see mad m.c.’s that hold down mics like no other? Huh? No, because they don’t fit ;only the ones that have love for this music are there! Rappers don’t give out side jams and most of all rappers don’t interact with mc.s because m.c.s are a threat to them. If both were to get on the mic at a jam out side and the d.j. is playing breakbeats , the m.c. will tear the rapper ass up because he is in his domain his arena and he will not only rock rhymes he will rock the party; showcase the d.j. with no gimmicks no hype man, no dancers just him and his gift of gab. The rapper will say some good rhymes that is probably in record form, meaning it will be 16 or 24 bars and will feel very uncomfortable up there by himself, no dancers, no security and no hype man and to top it off if the record skips he,the rapper will stop and look at the d.j. or search for the soundman. The m.c. will stutter back on track. And in order for the rapper to rock the crowd he will have to borrow the m.c.s crowd motivation skills, or put on one of his hit records. Last but not least m.c.s roll with other m.c.s, rappers roll with body guards and entourages and stay stuck in v.i.p. rooms. However it’s somewhat not their fault because the record industry did that to them with trickery. How can you be a rap star and not be able to hang around your old block and chill? Everything you do is under a microscope! Then you chip off the founders **** but can’t give them a job as A&R or a talent scout! Don’t call us in for a collaboration of our **** you take, but pay the record companies that raped us for our voice samples or our songs. Niggaz talk **** about Will Smith but that mother****er brought Kool Moe Dee in when he did Wild Wild West! So we have the right to be bitter when we gave up blood , sweat and our souls so these guys can get million dollar deals. Video budgets etc. etc. We open the door and these so called rappers hold the knob on the other side so we can’t get back in. Don’t you know if we was to get them big budgets and have access to them top-notch producers we'll be just as big if not bigger. But they (the record companies) claim that they don’t want to take a chance on us! So why did they jump on our music in the first place! They took a chance then and look what happened….A 12 billion dollar industry! And that’s the difference- peace my brother holla

If I'm not mistaken, didn't Cuba Gooding Jr. win an Oscar or Acadamy Award for his role on "Jerry Maguire"? btw, one of Ice Cube's movies is called "It's All About The Benjamins" :kekeke:

:word: Well Puffy did a lot of commercial production on Biggie's "Life After Death" album so it's not really that much of a stretch with bringing that sound on this "Biggie's Duets" album, that's most likely what I figure it'd be sounding close to even though I didn't personally hear it yet, but 2Pac's a different artist than Biggie, the type of production that Eminem did on "Loyal To The Game" is obviously not something that Pac would wanna rhyme over, they should've had Easy Mo Bee and Shock G do the production instead to incorporate Pac's sound so it'd sound like an authentic Pac album....

Saying Ja Rule is biting off Pac is like saying Jay-Z bites of off Biggie, Ja Rule was just inspired off of Pac the same way that Jay was inspired off of Big, that's all, nobody from the Outlawz would be taking Ja Rule's side if they had a problem with him, btw Big Daddy Kane should be on the Biggie album since he did tracks with Biggie before Biggie signed to Bad Boy, I'm still yet to check out this album, I'm gonna check it out soon....

Chris Rock is definately more of a comedian than an actor, I can't really think of a movie where he's done a serious role, that's why people won't ask him to do serious roles, they'll ask him to do comedies 'cause that's what he's best at.... You could say that there's quite a few black actors with just as much talent as Will but they don't appeal to a large commercial audience the way Will does, it ain't Will's fault, it's just the way the industry is, it's harder for a black actor to get in the game, Will wasn't at the top right away either, he had to work hard to get there....

Well it must not be that serious if he was released from the hospital already, that'll be used in the promotion for his next album probably, like Eminem's camp needs any more controversey. :kekeke:

Ice Cube's 1st movie "Boyz In The Hood" came out in 1990, which is actually Ice Cube's best movie to date, they honored that at Hip-Hop Honors in VH1 a couple months ago.... Yeah what Chris Rock said wasn't really a diss, it's more of a joke, he likes hip-hop but he don't want them to take his check I guess, lol, I'm sure he got no beef with Will 'cause he did a cameo on FPOBA....

Yeah actually I remember that Fatal actually was backing Ja Rule and Murder Inc. when they were battlin' with G-Unit and D-12 so most likely Pac would probably be beefin' with Eminem and 50 if he were alive....