bigted

Well Kanye ain't the only one that has to pay for samples, Will went to court over paying samples too but we didn't hear a word out of him for that, he just put out the money for it that's all, Kanye should hire an accountant...

I don't care for Will working with Kanye, his production is just as commercial as Trackmasters and his flow's boring, plus he's an arrogant punk saying he's the greatest now when that ain't true

Yes Dr. Dre has ruined the rap game, you can't blame "The Chronic" for ruining the rap game 'cause that was an artistic masterpiece but "Chronic 2001" was the album that really made the rap game get polluted, 90% sex/drugs/$$$$$ with very lil' substance/commercial beats just like all 50 Cent albums out now, think about it if "Chronic 2001" never blown up, "Marshall Mathers LP" wouldn't have sold 2 million in the first week, "Forgot About Dre" took the Eminem hype to an all time high. Dre signed Eminem who signed 50 Cent and drops Rakim in that same year who hasn't found a label since, until Dre does something creative again and puts real mcs like Big Daddy Kane on his albums I could care less about him, he's really the older version of 50 Cent right now, Pac would destroy all these clowns if he were still alive, that's why he beefed with Dre 'cause he saw that Dre was becoming fake, even Snoop isn't as dope he was 10 years ago...

You know if Will spends all of his money to promote an album on Koch and it flops then we might not get anymore albums from him, he might have to go to acting full time just to stay out of debt, that sounds like a fantasy if he could make an independent label popular, but there's too much risk... btw, KRS had problems with Koch in 2003 when they released his "kristyles" album prematurely with less tracks than what he wanted so is there really creative freedom? Not to mention how is Talib Kweli's new album doing, didn't even know it came out? Exactly! It won't work, face it. :paperbag: Will should go to Def Jam, he should've started his career there in the first place and they probably wouldn't drop him even when "Code Red" flopped 'cause they didn't drop LL when "14 Shots..." flopped...

Dr. Dre got so much power in the rap game, once him(or his ghostproducers, lol) stop producing for 50 and G Unit the rap game'll improve! :kekeke:

I'm bumpin' this thread when Slick Rick's releases another classic album that goes platinum next year! :paparazziupinthespot:

Fat Joe's dope, "Represent" is one of the best NY hip-hop albums of the mid-90s that's very underrated in my opinion and should be in the same sentence as "Illmatic" and "Reasonable Doubt", real street s***, so what he does commercial stuff now, it ain't like Nas and Jay-Z don't do anything commercial either? If you discredit him 'cause of his recent stuff then you'd have to discredit Nas for doing "Nastradamous". Longevity might hurt Slick Rick since he hasn't really done much lately but neither has Rakim or Queen Latifah.

That's the point, I don't like his music so it's hard to accept his ego, he ain't the greatest so for him to say he's the greatest is just ridiculous to my opinion at least, but if Will said he's the greatest on TV, I'd agree with him 'cause I like his music, people don't like him say that's ridiculous too, so I think I have the right to my opinion as much as they do when they diss Will, maybe if Kanye put out something that I'd like maybe I'd agree with him, as long as other artists are ok with that I guess it's ok overall... I think that Kanye's in debt 'cause he pays too many artists to be on the record with him, I'm thinkin' that he's doing it as hype to get those artists' fans to buy the album but maybe he does want to help his friends gets some shine, hopefully he don't end up like Hammer though...

KRS got millions of dollars but there's no way he's got Will Smith money, he ain't making 20 million a film, KRS needs to be on an independent label or else he'd be broke, Kanye's selling 2 million on Def Jam and yet he's $600,000 in debt so I'd imagine how much debt KRS would be in with a gold record on Jive records, being on independent label is KRS' source of income, he had to go independent, he'd probably like to promote his stuff too but he don't wanna be broke doing it, all he does is rhyme, his only passion is hip-hop, he don't do anything on the side like Will does, it's 2 different situations, Will has enough money to start his own label, he don't have to sign to anybody actually, Will could actually help Koch become a mainstream label the way that Dr. Dre helped Interscope become mainstream, that used to be an independent label too...

That'd really be a good move for both Koch and Will, Koch needs to have a big name on there and Will'd have more creative freedom than he'd on any mainstream label....

:word: "Tell Me Why" is bigger than Will's album sales, this is something that everyone needs to hear!

VH1 listed Kool Moe Dee at #48 a couple years ago, that's how you could tell he put a bias in his book :rofl: http://www.gotriad.com/article/articleview/3667/1/17

The track is perfect with the production, lyrics, flow, and most importantly the MESSAGE! :2thumbs: :bowdown:

See what I mean hardly anybody in this generation has ever heard of Melle Mel, he hasn't put out a recording in like 20 years when he was a member of The Furious Five with Grandmaster Flash, LL Cool J should be #1 'cause like Will Smith everyone knows who LL is, whether you're 10 years old or 50 years old, everyone from Bow Wow's generation to the president's generation knows him, it's obvious that Kool Moe Dee's bitter towards LL for killing his career, I'm surprised he even put LL in the top 10 but not many'd say that they think Kool Moe Dee is better than LL, LL has outlasted basically everyone ranked above him there too, KRS still makes albums but only his few hardcore fans buy them, I'm probably one of few under 30 who actually listens to KRS' recent albums, LL has been getting fans from the youth generation to buy his albums, Will should be in the top 10, especially after "Lost and Found", that should cement that... I notice nobody from the Beastie Boys is on there either and yet there's Xzibit, say it ain't so Kool Moe Dee!!!!!!! :paperbag: Lil' Kim has no flow, no substance, no performance, I don't understand what'd make Kool Moe Dee consider her an mc, I'd love to read that!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't read the book, like Da Brakes said it's probably one of the best lists, I have a problem with Slick Rick being #40 though he should be top 10 easily, he influenced Pac, Biggie, Redman, and basically every mc above him there, him putting Lauryn instead of Wyclef, Wyclef has had more longevity than Lauryn, and I don't like that he put those few at the end of the list instead of Salt/Pepa/ MC Hammer/Talib Kweli though but this is the closest thing to a perfect list I've seen, I gotta get my hand on this book...

Well basically if Will did that that'd alienate everybody if I think about it, lol, the hardcore fans like us wouldn't like him anymore and the everyone else'll make fun of Will for trying to be hard after being the clean rapper for so many years, "Maybe I should just have a shootout..." :rofl: :stars:

Kool Moe Dee should trade places between Melle Mel and Will! :yeah: Heavy D at 25 is actually realistic to me 'cause he put out 7 albums, he definately deserves that type of recognition, I don't anybody would put Kool Moe Dee in their top 5, he's probably the only one to feel that way, he must feel bitter that LL's still out and his career's dead now, I think it's more realistic for Queen Latifah to be ahead of 2Pac than it is for Nas to be ahead of 2Pac, I don't know what he was thinking to put Kurupt, Lil' Kim, Craig Mack, Foxy Brown, and Mack 10 on the list: Where's Salt-N-Pepa, MC Hammer, Talib Kweli, Ghostface Killa, and Shock G?

This is funny that Kool Moe Dee ranks himself ahead of LL, Will Smith at #23 is respectable, Doug E. Fresh ahead of Slick Rick is shocking, Lauryn Hill only had one album so she can't be in the top 10, Queen Latifah should be top 10, why'd he put Lil' Kim ahead of Fat Joe? but hey at least he didn't put no wack rappers like Eminem or 50 Cent on here... http://oldschoolhiphop.forumco.com/topic~TOPIC_ID~8930.asp "Greatest MC's 1. Melle Mel 2. Rakim 3. KRS-One 4. Big Daddy Kane 5. Kool Mo Dee 6. Grandmaster Caz 7. LL Cool J 8. Chuck D 9. Notorious B.I.G. 10. Lauryn Hill 11. Nas 12. Queen Latifah 13. Tupac 14. Kool G Rap 15. Jay-Z 16. Treach 17. Method Man 18. Ice Cube 19. MC Lyte 20. Redman 21. Ras Kass 22. GZA 23. Will Smith 24. Busta Rhymes 25. Heavy D 26. Pharoahe Monch 27. Xzibit 28. Common 29. Black Thought 30. Scarface 31. Kurtis Blow 32. Run 33. Snoop Dogg 34. Guru 35. Ice-T 36. Doug E Fresh 37. Keith Murray 38. Mystikal 39. Kurupt 40. Slick Rick 41. Big Pun 42. Lil' Kim 43. MC Shan 44. Craig Mack 45. Jeru the Damaja 46. Fat Joe 47. Spoonie Gee 48. Foxy Brown 49. Mack 10 50. Just-Ice there were 17 categories that he rated each MC from 0-100 on. Originality concepts versatility vocabulary substance flow flavor freestyle vocal presence live performance poetic value body of work industry impact social impact longevity (this category skewers the list alot in my opinion) Lyrics Battle skills

Pete Rock in my opinion is the best producer on the mic with his lyrics and flow, CL Smooth is dope too, now I think Juelz Santana is one of the best mcs to come out recently, his flow's sick but he's a lil' lacking on lyrics, if he works on that a lil' bit more he could be one of the best ever, especially since he was able to hang on a track with LL...

Yeah there's mcs out there who can't flow but have dope lyrics, there's mcs out there who got dope flow but they have no lyrics, but usually if you're lacking one area you can't be a great mc, great mcs have to be versatile, the only thing 50 Cent is good at is dressin' like a girl, lol.

50 Cent can't flow, he mumbles most of the time, even Vanilla Ice got more flow than he does...

Well that's true that Slick Rick ain't really doing anything now, neither is Rakim, this ain't about who has the best flow now, we're talking all time ain't we? We can't bring up Biggie and Pac anymore either if we're talking about now 'cause they're dead. But seriously what original thing has 50 Cent done to be put on the same level as them on the all time list? So what Michael Jordan doesn't play basketball anymore but that doesn't mean he ain't the greatest basketball player of all time, no player in the league right now is doing it like MJ did and there's no rapper in the game now putting it down the way Slick Rick did...

Where's the love for Busta? :bat:

Kanye is different than Pac, Pac represented for the people when he rhymed, Kanye only represents for himself when he rhymes, Pac didn't cry like a bitch over how much awards or platinum plaques he had, Kanye does, that's what makes Pac more than Kanye to me... How old are you like 12? Hip-hop has nothing to do with how much money or platinum plaques you have, an mc selling 2000 could rhyme better than a commercial rapper selling 2 million, talent is talent, whether you're on MTV performing somebody elses lyrics or your performing on your block performing all the rhymes you wrote... Kanye should keep fighting the power for the people, not just to boost his career, he's a selfish punk... You don't beg for respect, respect comes to you... Kids buy into it when 50 Cent and Kanye West say stupid things but the hip-hop heads don't, Kanye's looking more like a sellout everyday...Don't get me wrong I don't hate everything commercial since I'm posting at the mc-dj duo that've sold millions, but they're original, a lot of what these commercial cats do is bite off of each other, kanye is a poser, he needs to collaborate with a million rappers for his album to sound good...

Just when I start to defend him, he has to say and do stupid s*** like this, I feel like I do when a friend abandons me, lol. :bat: Honestly like Flava Flav said: "Who gives a f*** 'bout a goddamn Grammy", platinum plaques and awards don't make a real mc, we don't see Will complaing about not being nominated 'cause he's the real mc Kanye isn't. Public Enemy has toured over 50 times in 20 years but they have no Grammy, I don't see Chuck D complaining about it. Kanye says that artists shouldn't give each other props so hopefully nobody gives him props, let's see how Kanye'd do if he had nobody guest appearing on his next album, if I was a popular mc in the rap industry and Kanye asked me to do a record with him I'd say "f*** you" after hearing something like this. He didn't criticise Bush for the reason of caring about the people, he did it to boost his career and call it racism if he loses, lol. He calls himself the greatest last week at the Billboard with LL there hosting, hopefully LL has something to say about that when he releases his next album, the young punk needs to get schooled...