bigted

Well it had a few above average moments in between but I think I'd call "Born To Reign" track the only exceptional track there, too bad it wasn't longer, but I'd rather repeat that for an hour than listen than mostly anything else on there myself, well there's enough classic albums in Will's catalog so "Born To Reign" doesn't ruin his legacy but if that was his first album his career would've been over, lol.

Yeah Nas did dumb down to get more of an audience just like Jay-Z, that's why people compare them I guess but if they made all their albums like "Illmatic" and "Reasonable Doubt" which are their lowest selling albums they'd have smaller audiences than they do now, and the massive audience opens up to discover "Illmatic" and "Reasonable Doubt" now after they're famous.

Yeah Kanye's basically like JJFP, Jay-Z, or LL on the fact that he ain't really gangsta or conscious, he's just an mc that raps about many different things, he works with all different types of artists like they do 'cause even Will collabed with Lil' Kim before too, and yes he does admit that he's human in his songs. I sometimes forget though 'cause I really don't listen to his music that much, lol, and I don't listen to all of his interviews, the only ones I happen to catch are the ones where he's bragging. But I don't agree with dumbing down though but I guess if Kanye and JJFP never dumbed down only I handful of people would listen to them, they don't do it all the time like G-Unit, but I think the conscious rappers deserve to have a massive audience just like the gangsta rappers do, there needs to be balance like LL said.

This song "Conscious Rapper" by KRS-ONE has 10X more of a powerful message than "Jesus Walks", he's the most skilled conscious rapper that ever lived in my opinion, I think it's on the same level as "Lost and Found", too bad this couldn't been a huge single, this would put the whole rap industry in its place, Kanye needs to listen to this too, he should releasise that he shouldn't "expect respect from slaves and hoes/or the slavemasters video shows/nor the rap mags/especially black mags, you know how that goes"(when he complains about getting a higher rating than he did or not getting enough awards): You think this is easy right? (Yeah!) You think this is easy right? (That's easy!) You think you got what it takes? (Yeah that's easy!) Huh, we gon' see.. we gon' see right now (Now what?) Look [KRS-One] So you wanna be a conscious rapper Can you handle the press and they negative chatter Can you eat cold platters, and still spit data Watchin others spit lies and they pockets get fatter Can you climb up the ladder, and reach the top? But it still doesn't matter, cause you ain't pop Can you rock for the love of the art Can you drop hit after hit after hit and still don't chart? Can you REALLY stay loyal to God when your life is full of strife, plus it always seems so hard Can you handle the criticism People holdin you up to higher standards, but they don't live 'em? Can you hear these kiddy flows and laugh at it But when you spit they callin you arrogant? You better think about that before you rock to this Sometimes it's easier to pop your Cris', let's do it! [Chorus: *sung*] Think you can do what I do Think you can step in my shoes You have no clue what I go through You never felt my pain When they attack my name All because I have spoken the truth [KRS-One] To be a conscious rapper ain't a mystery You gotta laugh when they call you contradictory The whole industry, you gotta push and pull it To really get with me, you gotta dodge they bullets Blaow, blaow, blaow, every day and every way You critics got somethin to say At the same time, you gotta uphold Christ Uphold life, while others flash cars and ice It could break you down, take you down, make you frown It could actually shake your ground But if you love who you are, and believe in that Best believe you will BE where the teacher's at And where's that? In fact, in cold or heat Yes, I declare victory over the streets Overstand, over these beats, over the so-called elite Over the strong, over the weak I know how to speak, and most of all I know how to eat I know I want humble and meek So you better think about that before you rock to this Sometimes it's easier to pop your Cris', uhh [Chorus] [KRS-One] Look! So you thinkin about bein a concious MC Well you gotta love God and you got to live free You got to see the life that others can't see You got to be the person that others can't be You can't be a S-L-A, V-E If you sayin to yourself, "This may be me" Then you know goin in that you work against sin Your very skills will kill the demons within So don't expect respect from slaves and hoes Nor the slavemaster's video shows Nor the rap mags, you know how it go Especially black mags, you know they don't know Just go to the crowd that you know will need you Cause NOTHING compares to the respect of the people That's what you look for, that's what you work with Cause anything else, is truly worthless You better think about that before you rock to this Sometimes it's easier to just pop your Cris' You better think about that, 'fore you rock to this Sometimes it's easier to just pop your Cris', uhh [Chorus] - repeat 2X

It comes out next Tuesday here in the US, btw the Rev. Run reality show'll be on tonight at 10:30 PM on MTV, he was on Regis and Kelly this morning talkin' about it and his album too.

Mase, Mase, Mase... There are so many stories as to why he left music and New York, very few people know exactly what to belive. As for Kanye... I'm not sure we can compare a song like "Workout Plan" to "Girls." Yeah "Workout Plan" is much more explicit and wacker than "Girls..." and is the reason why I wouldn't consider Kanye a conscious rapper, if he released "Breathe In, Breathe Out" and threw in half-naked hoes instead of "Jesus Walks", he wouldn't be called conscious at all, I don't understand how people could raise the bar so high on him as a rapper to be the savior of rap 'cause he follows the same trends that other commercial rappers do, he collabs with so many of those commercial rappers, any protege of Jay-Z is not gonna clean up the rap game, he dumbs down just like Jay-Z does but at least Jigga could flow, even a flow could go only so far without subject matter. In his interviews though he does hype himself as the savior of rap so I guess if you put it that way, I guess there's no reason for people not to diss him. The point that I was making is Kanye is just as human as JJFP are, it ain't like they never looked at porno before either I'm sure, especially since thye had groupies back stage and I'm sure they weren't eating milk and cookies, lol. If we're talkin' morals JJFP could be hold accountable for that just as much as Kanye, just 'cause they make better music they Kanye doesn't excuse them, who am I to judge though, I ain't perfect either. Now critics could criticise JJFP for bangin' hoes backstage when they didn't make songs about celebrating that, then again Will admitted that he was wrong for doing that in "Afro Angel", so maybe if Kanye did that then it'd be all good then. Now if we get back to the music where I could be more critical, lol, I think JJFP are closer to conscious rap than Kanye is, the only ones I truely consider conscious rappers are the ones that don't follow trends to sell records, they might only 10,000-20,000 albums but they don't dumb down into something they ain't, that's why we don't have KRS and Lil' Brother selling 2 million like Kanye not that they ain't talented enough to do that, they just don't dumb down, you could Will dumbs down too with "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" type songs but he keeps it clean and respectful still so it's ok for him to dumb down, it ain't like he's rappin' about doing drugs or how his guns are bigger than Lil' Bow Wow, he just raps about clean fun. The problem of the rap game is like LL said there's no balance, we don't have every rapper clean cut like JJFP but not every rapper should be as explicit as Dr. Dre either, nobody has to be a role model, they should be themselves instead of trying to be somebody else, don't try to be clean cut if you ain't, don't be hardcore when you're really soft as a cupcake, that's what it comes down to.

The ironic thing is that, I'm willing to bet, the majority of modern rappers live "better" lives than they rap about. Kids probably would be better off seeing those rappers real lives rather then listening to their music. Lol, excellent point. As Cozmo said, a lot of these rappers are making music depicting themselves as international drug lords while they're claiming that they're keeping it real. It's one thing when it's simply entertainment, and even then, a lot of the content in these rhymes is questionable, but when the line is blurred between entertainment and reality as many of these rappers have done, it becomes apparent that a lot of them don't even remember how to keep it real. In that respect, Kanye's a better pick, but I think we can still do better. There's something wrong with the rap game if people consider Kanye West the most conscious rapper 'cause he's not, his music is far from that, and I think it's quite overrated so maybe that's what makes me want to not be open minded about his personal life, he looks up to Mase maybe that's why he contradicts himself, the next topic we'll be discussing soon is Kanye West signing to G Unit records, he already talks about wanting to record with Eminem so that wouldn't be much of a stretch...

I think Turntable was only joking Wes! :paperbag:

The chorus ruins it, they should've of had no chorus at all and let the music play, I dig the production on there, that's a different sound then what we're used to from a FP track, it gives it a festive feel, I like the way he flows on the last verse too but this song ranks among his worst ever, maybe it'd good for 50 Cent though, "Fiesta" is much better I agree.

Now if you wanna know the epitome of contradictory, look at Mase, he retires from rap to become a preacher and talks about how he wants to clean up the rap game when he came back but after his album flopped hecomes back now and signs with G-Unit, the ones that're polluting the rap game the most. :hmm: At least Kanye hasn't gone that far yet and he does do songs about girls just like JJFP do: "Golddiger", "Slow Jams", "Breathe In, Breathe Out", "Workout Plan", etc., so I guess it's ok for him to fantasise about women if it's ok if JJFP had groupies right? Kanye wouldn't be called a conscious rapper like he is if he didn't release "Jesus Walks" as a single, it's only one song, that'd be like if Will released "The Rain" I guess people would call him a conscious rapper too.

:rofl: This is just as funny as reading Frenetic's post about JJFP going on Aftermath! :gettinjiggywitit: Seriously though like I was tryin' to talk about last night I wonder how Will could've been fed up with the commercial rap scene back in the mid-90s when he gives props to Biggie? He was one of the fakest rappers out then in my opinion, him and the Junior MAFIA were ruining the rap game, well I guess he likes them since he put Lil' Kim on "Willenium". Well Pac deserves some of the blame too even though I like him more than Biggie 'cause of what he was doing on Death Row was ruining hip-hop's image even though it was dope music. Will shouldn't diss gangsta rappers at all then if he feels that way, that's why gangsta rap fans might hate on Will 'cause they could look at that as contradiction but maybe he just didn't want no part of the east-west beef. Even putting Snoop on the "Lost and Found" album too might get some criticism especially since he was one of the big ones at that time, he could've done a song with Rakim instead, then again some hardcore Rakim fans probably look at Rakim differently too after he signed with Dr. Dre 'cause none of his music he did with Eric B. is considered gangsta.

Well if JJFP signed to Aftermath, they probably would get dumped like Rakim, who knows if Busta Rhymes' album'll ever come out, Will won't be promoted better there then he is now.

Well Amare Stoudamire is gonna be out for 4 months now: Stoudemire will be out 4 months Paul Coro The Arizona Republic Oct. 12, 2005 12:00 AM Amaré Stoudemire was higher than he gets on one of his dunks nine days ago when he signed a contract extension to cap his "$100-plus million summer." He awoke on a surgical table Tuesday morning flat on his back with a new reality. Stoudemire will miss Suns games for about four months after an exploratory scope evolved into a microfracture procedure on his left knee. Suns team physician and orthopedic surgeon Thomas Carter determined Stoudemire would require the microfracture procedure after seeing that his lesion was one centimeter wide, the breaking point of when surgeons choose to perform a microfracture. The procedure involves drilling holes into the bone beneath the damaged cartilage, allowing blood and cells to come through and form a clot that turns into scar cartilage. advertisement Microfracture is a frightening term for local sports fans to hear after seeing former Suns player Penny Hardaway and ex-Arizona Cardinals defensive linemen Eric Swann and Andre Wadsworth struggle in their returns. John Stockton was one of the rare NBA players who came away from a microfracture surgery at the same caliber. Hardaway, Terrell Brandon, Chris Webber and Allan Houston were never the same. Stoudemire's case is believed to be less serious than those cases. Carter assured Suns officials that he believes Stoudemire will return at 100 percent because of his age (22), the smaller size of the lesion and the location of it. The damage was on the inside of his left knee, an area that is not as weight-bearing as others. "I am confident the microfracture procedure performed will allow a healthy and normal return to action," Carter said in a team statement. He also said the knee was "remarkably and structurally healthy." The Suns were talking title, and the nation's experts were talking MVP candidacy for Stoudemire until his knee troubles flared up last week. Stoudemire was bothered by knee pain throughout the summer and underwent a magnetic resonance imaging test three weeks ago. He participated in Tucson camp last week but the pain worsened, prompting Friday and Sunday visits to two different specialists. Stoudemire was aware of the microfracture possibility before the surgery. "It was better to do the microfracture now instead of chancing that the lesion would grow, which might affect Amaré down the road," said Stoudemire's manager, Rodney Rice, who was in the room during the one-hour operation. "It was best to do the procedure now. "He's got a lot of things in his favor to come back in a strong way." Stoudemire will be on crutches for four to six weeks before starting a rehabilitation program. He is expected to return to game action after the All-Star break for a Feb. 15 game. At that time, he would have missed 50 games. "He'll come back even stronger," Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said. "Amaré will be fine. He'll work hard and he'll be back. The Phoenix Suns will be fine. It's just a matter of waiting it out, being sure we get our team together, and hopefully he pushes us over the top." Stoudemire cut back off-season workouts due to the pain the lesion caused and missed two camp practices because of it. The lesion is not uncommon among pro athletes, Suns President and General Manager Bryan Colangelo said. "This is not what you want to do on and off all season, much less on or off for the rest of his six-year contract, so you address the problem now," said Colangelo, who signed Stoudemire to a five-year extension on Oct. 3 that would pay him $72.6 million based on this season's salary cap. Suns forward Brian Grant heard the news Tuesday morning and looked down at the scar on his left knee from a microfracture surgery. He said his recovery lasted about six or seven months but his lesion was located in a worse place, and the surgeon also was repairing patella damage. "Wow, he's got a tough road ahead of him," Grant said. More about microfracture What it is Microfracture is a surgical technique used to repair damaged knee cartilage, the material that helps cushion bones at the joints. It is frequently performed on athletes. A version of the procedure can also be used to assist in ligament repair. How it's done For cartilage repair, the surgeon, using an arthroscope, drills tiny holes, or microfractures, into the bone near the damaged cartilage. Bone marrow and blood from the holes creates a clot that releases cartilage-building cells. During ligament operations, similar holes are drilled near the surgically repaired areas, and the resulting clot provides an enriched environment to help heal tissue. Success factors The resulting microfracture "fibrocartilage" has less capability to withstand common shock or shearing forces in the knee and can degenerate over time. Research suggests that, in the short term, the procedure is more effective in patients with lower body mass indexes. Sources: The Stone Clinic, Medline Plus Medical Encyclopedia, Orthopedic Technology Review Big losses

Well what more is there to discuss? If y'all want this to drag on for another month go right ahead, discussing Kanye West has become as annoying as discussing 50 Cent and Eminem to me. JJFP came out with clean cut music when they came out but they had groupies too on their free time since they were bachelors, I don't see what's the difference between that and Kanye watching pornos on his free time since he's a bachelor, food for thought, I'm out!

Well not everyone doing movies has success with music look at Nick Cannon, his album didn't go gold even after he had a couple of hit movies under his belt before it dropped. It's a possibility that "Independence Day" and "Bad Boys" was the reason why Will was offered a contract to Columbia, maybe it was their idea that he'd release his albums under Will Smith instead of Fresh Prince 'cause more people knew him as Will Smith from those movies, if those movies weren't doing well maybe he wouldn't have even got an offer on Columbia, maybe no major label would sign him either 'cause record labels were dumping ol' school rappers not signing them, "Code Red" could've been his last album but who knows maybe if it sold as "Homebase" maybe JJFP would still be on Jive for a couple more albums and maybe Will wouldn't have decided to act so much but none of his albums would ever sell 10 million.

This topic has gotten too far out of hand now, I personally think it's wrong to spend all that money on porno but that's how I feel and I don't care if Kanye does that, that's his life, and as far as the way he potrays himself, I feel that he needs to talk to his mother and tell her not to leak that to the public because people that ain't open minded will frown on him and that will hurt his image, he needs to start thinking before he talks too, he's too arrogant and after a while people won't like him, let the music speak for itself if it's good. btw I also think it's wrong that "College Dropout" was nominated for a Gospel Award 'cause his music is far from being gospel music to me, there are gospel rappers more deserving to get that shine because they don't dumb down to be popular and they deserve some due to be true to their artform, especially since they don't sell much.

Yeah it's like when a rapper does something the media wants to cut their head off forever but when a government leader does something people forget about it gradually, it should be double standard, as long as rappers balance out their lyrics to not rap about sex, drugs, and guns all the time that's ok, even LL makes songs about sex but he don't do it every song.

:rofl:

Yeah I'm not gonna be a "Loretta", Will definately could've done more of course but I ain't really gonna complain too much 'cause he gave me a gem of an album to enjoy.

That's understandable, but you've drawn the conclusion that because you know people who don't live what they profess, "It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control." It only means that the people you have observed may not be genuine or mature in their faith. It doesn't mean that church is fake or is a form of mind control. Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a "White Jesus." Are you criticizing the religion itself? There's a common perception that Jesus is white by European Chistians because they want him to look the way they look :damnyou: , while black Christians made representations of a black jesus to counter that, but none of them are true, the exact skin colour can never be known but he was likely olive skinned seeing as he was oriental, from the middle east.. I agree with a lot of SmoothB said, I wen't to church as a kid, and I don't think it made be any better of a person, in fact I despise a lot of religious people, and a lot of Christians because they are the biggest "Holy rollers" you have ever seen!..the only way the religion benefited me is when I read it myself, most Christianity is redundant today because it's the opposite of what the religion really is, for instance your not ment to mix religion with politics in christianity but supposed christian groups are deeply involved in politics-just check out the US Evangelicals :mygod: :nolachen: Organised religion, usually deviates from the truth significantly and it's not worth going to the majority of churches because their not Christianity On Kanye West: kanye west is everywhere, :sick: his starting to get more annoying then 50 cent..I think theirs more worthy things to be spending money on then $500 on porn, and for me it's not really a religious thing, it's being something that your not, I think that Kanye is the ultimate marketer, he's everywhere, it seems he just wants to be contraversial for the sake of being contraversial, I agree with a lot of what he says, heck perhaps 95% of it, radio doesn't want to play music with a message(Jesus walks), his views on George Bush(hell most people do)...but if you look at it most of his big statements recently are designed to make him look like a sort of reformer/leader and to prop up his albums sales..a lot of what he says is vague and generalized and used to shock, +it's contradictiory: Claims radio wont play a christian message-not really living up to christianity himself, and the discrimination against gays statement he did also seems to be another one of those tools he uses to portray himself as a trailbrazer, as a civil rights kind of a leader-yet the very views he's putting out contradict the very basis of the religion he upholds...It's always a case of "look at me look at me" with Kanye...It has nothing to do with religion Yeah people tryin' to persuade you to believe their religious beliefs is just as bad as trying to somebody to do drugs when they don't want to, we all have our own beliefs and we need to respect each other's point of view. I mean as long as Kanye doesn't encourage kids to watch pornos publicly he could do what he wants behind closed doors and I have nothing against that, his mother came out and said it not him, you don't have to be perfect to be a role model either, it's the parents that raise the kids, if they were there for them they wouldn't do some of the things they do, you can't put all the weight on the entertainers to do that, even 2Pac would smoke weed on his free time but he's called the greatest rapper for his great songs with positive messages, you could call him a hypocrite if you want but he was human. Now as far Kanye the rapper no way in hell would ever like him as much as LL, FP, KRS, Chuck D, Nas, Pac, etc. to call him one of my favorites but I try to bring an open minded point of view to the table more now so I don't have to always beef about it with those that like him here.

The album's gold and there's only 5 or 6 others in the rap game this year that could say they've done that or better, I think Fat Joe's career might be over faster than Will's 'cause he didn't even do that.

I think rap as a whole is losing popularity, it ain't just Will, the most important thing is that Will stays true to his artistry and he is, I think it's more that fans turn their backs on him, not the opposite.

If you put somebody down for not going to church like you do or believe the same religion that you do that's being a "Holy Roller", "If I don't believe what you believe then I'm going to hell?", everybody has the right to believe what they want, I believe in God but I'm not gonna hold a grudge with you or diss you if you don't believe in God. It's your life and you could believe and do what you want, you could smoke crack all day if you want or pray to God all day if you want but as long as you don't personally do anything to me I won't care, I might even be your friend as long as you don't influence that on me if I don't want to do it.

Kanye doesn't rap about God all the time anyway, "Jesus Walks" was only one song that he did about God, it's just a song, the only people that religious people would take seriously would be gospel singers, if they're real religious they won't even listen to Will 'cause they even think saying damn and hell is cursing. So what are you gonna do then lock yourself in a room, pray to God all day, only listen to hymns, and watch the religious channel all day so you won't sin? lol. The reason why some people might not be too overly religious is 'cause these preachers preach to you about everything you do to make you feel lower than dirt and then they turn around to rape lil' boys.

So what's more disgusting have sex with 100 groupies or watching pornos? They're both just as bad 'cause having sex with women you ain't married with is a sin too, lol, but at least Kanye won't end up like Magic Johnson if he watches pornos, but it's not as bad as raping somebody, it's only recreation and it's harmless although I won't personally condone that either. Stop judging other people so much though, if you don't like Kanye's music leave it at that but you don't know him personally, he probably don't watch pornos everyday, he's busy making music and touring, why'd he have that much free time anyway? So what, Will's potraying himself as somebody else in his music too in a way 'cause he curses in real life but he don't curse in his songs 'cause he's conscious what he says on his songs but some critics hate on the fact that he don't curse on his songs when they find out that he does in real life in some magazine interviews and they call him a hypocrite for that just like some of us that don't like Kanye call him a hypocrite 'cause he talks about Jesus but he watches porno and real life, so what's the difference between them? They're both human, it's just we might like one's music over the other but we shouldn't judge their personalities 'cause we don't know them like that, as long as they potray themselves in society that's no problem, I think making songs about being a gangsta when you're not one is worse but rappers don't raise kids parents do, 50 Cent makes pornos too so he ain't no role model any way around, that's even worse than what Kanye does. btw, where are the parents of the girls that act in pornos? Maybe if they all got jobs like regular people there wouldn't be a porno industry. The only way we're gonna be perfect is if we stay in our house all day praying to God, I mean come on we could believe in God if we choose to but we gotta live too, we all sin a lil' bit in between, it's life, get over it! I don't like gangsta rap much either but it's entertainment just like rated R movies that have the same amount of sex and violence in it so you hope they're not like that in real life, that means that Will can't believe in God either 'cause he was shooting somebody in a movie? That means the girls in the porno movies can't believe in God either? Bush might smoke crack on his free time for all we know but he obviously has better management to hide his faults unlike Kanye, lol, and I think Kanye was referring to what Bush was doing on his job not his personal life so he has the right to still do that. The way that Bush reacted to the hurricane is a sin in itself letting thousands die when they didn't have to, don't you think that's even more disgusting than somebody watching pornos?