Where are Eminem and Ludacris in your list of greats?

[Big Willie]

Eminem is major skilled, I cant front about that. While Luda's is aight, he's not a sick as Em. But he still often releases better stuff than Em.

Correction. Eminem WAS major skilled

correction eminem IS MAJORED SKILLED

I honestly don't see how anyone can say that Em is still skilled! What was the last decent verse he put out when he wasn't babbling?? Look back over 'Infinite' 'SSLP' and 'MMLP' and tell me thats the same Em spitting today. Its incomparable! His rhyme scheme has fallen waaaaaaaaaaaay off, his subject matter, everything about him! I used to be the biggest Eminem fan back in the days when he was lyrical but not it annoys me now to listen to anything he is on! He is not the same rapper as he was early on in his career. FACT!

Here is Em in my opinion at his peak:

Jay Z feat Eminem - Renegades

Since I'm in a position to talk to these kids and they listen

I ain't no politician but I'll kick it with 'em a minute

Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it

But if it don't, then y'all can swallow the truth grin and bear it

Now who's the king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics

Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics

Usin his music to steer it, sharin his views and his merits

But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it

Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit

Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish

But I'm debated disputed hated and viewed in America

as a motherf***in drug addict - like you didn't experiment?

Now now, that's when you start to stare at who's in the mirror

and see yourself as a kid again, and you get embarrased

And I got nothin to do but make you look stupid as parents

You f***in do-gooders too bad you couldn't do good at marriage!

(Ha ha!) And do you have any clue what I had to do to get here I don't

think you do so stay tuned and keep your ears glued to the stereo

Cause here we go - he's {*Jigga joint Jigga-chk-Jigga*}

And I'm the sinister, Mr. Kiss-My-Ass it's just a

And this is his recent offering

Akon feat Eminem - Smack That

Ooh! Looks like another club banger.

They better hang on.

When I throw this thang on.

Get a little drink on. They goin' flip.

[ these lyrics found on http://www.completealbumlyrics.com ]

For this Akon ****. You can bank on it.

Pedicure, manicure, kitty cat claws.

The way she climbs up and down them poles.

Lookin' like one of them Pretty Cat Dolls.

Tryna hold my woody back through my drawers.

Steps off stage, didn't think I saw her.

Creeps up behind me and she's like, you're -

I'm like, yeah I know, let's cut to the chase.

No time to waste. Back to my place.

Plus from the club to the crib's like a mile away.

Or more like a palace, shall I say.

And plus I got a pal. Every gal is game.

In fact he's the one singing the song that's playing!

(Akon!)

Now look at the way the sentences are constructed and the rhyme pattern! You'd think two different rappers wrote and recorded this. Think what you want but to call the Eminem that is out now 'majorly skilled' is just plain wrong! :shakehead:

ok come on now, i can't be quiet on this one. Em was the king of controversial lyrics, but then people said, well can he make a club banger, and he showed he easily can with smack that.

but hey, if you're going to run renegade lyrics against his new stuff, why not against his new stuff that is worth comparing in terms of being serious subject matter? Smack that and renegade had two different audiences meant to address. Now try putting Renegade up against No apologies:

No Apologies- Eminem

Verse 1:

In my mind I'm a fighter, my heart's a lighter.

My soul is the fluid, my flow sparks it right up.

An arsenic writer, author with arthritis

carpal tunnel, Marshall with start ****-itis

hardheaded and hotheaded

bullheaded and pigheaded

dick-headed, a prick, a big headache

I'm sick, quick-witted for every lyric spitted

there are six critics who wait for me to slip with it

so quick this dynamite stick

bury the wick its gonna explode

any minute some lunatic lit it and it's not Nelly

do not tell me to stop yelling, when I stop selling I'll quit so

stop dwelling, I am not failing

you ****ers are not ready

cause I got jelly like Beyonce's pot belly

this is destiny, yes money

I'm off runnning so get off of me

I'm not slowing or softening.

Verse 2:

My head hits the pillow, a weepin' willow

I can't sleep, a pain so deep it bellows

but these cellos help just to keep me mellow

hands on my head, touch knees to elbows

I'm hunched over emotion just flows over

these cold shoulders are both frozen, you don't know me

I keep sayin' it. I cant stress it enough

so keep playin' it and stand next to the subs

I choke mics like asphyxiation

while I'm strangling my own throat masturbatin' (haha)

**** yeah I'm a basketcase and I master this rap **** til' my ass gets wasted.

til' my assassination, til' I'm slain cause of some fag's infatuation

44 mag, a fascination, a taste for disaster and if thats the case then.

Verse 3:

This song isn't for you it's for me, A true MC

it's what I do just to see if he still has it and if his skills mastered

he's able to spill raps long after he's killed

that's a, real MC, got you feelin' me

whether willing or unwillingly you still agree

As long as there's still this hunger and will in me

Then expect the longer life expectancy

I'd be a savage beast if I ain't have this outlet to salvage me inside

I'd be exploding soaked in self loathing and mourning

So I’m warning you don’t coax me its silly

I'm really a sheep in wolf's clothing

who only reacts when he gets pushed don't be

fooled the press blows up this whole thing

it's stupid, they don't know cause they don't see

that I'm wounded all they did was ballooned it

I'm sick of talking bout these tattoos Cartoon did

thats why i tuned it out, I'm sick of dukin'

and they can suck my dick while I'm pukin'

and you too you can expect no sympathy from me

I'm an MC, this is how I'm supposed to be

cold as a G my hearts frozen, it don't even beat

so expect no apologies

expect no sympathy from me

I'm an MC, this is how I'm supposed to be

cold as a G, my hearts frozen it don't even beat

so expect no apologies.

Now I'm not saying No apologies is better, but it definitely carries itself alongside Renegade. Eminem hasn't lost skill, he's just diversified. Most rappers go from club bangers to branching out into thought-provoking music. Em WAS ONLY thought-provoking music, and decided recently, with Shake that, smack that, and Welcome to Detroit to try and have some fun. But he still got it.

Brakes was making a point on the rhyme structure, and even though the lyrics are reasonable in the verses you have posted, his rhyme structure is severley lacking compared to his earlier stuff. And again, the structure change is from a song that was written or made after the death of Proof (RIP). Cozmos story seems to have a lot more backbone that previously thought, I listened to the audio that Brakes posted, and there is definitley similiarities between the two styles, and IMO Proof was flowing better than Em. I've noticed myself that Em's style has changed since Proofs death, but never put the two together, who knows. All I know is that from a hip hop stand point and his abilities, Eminem is bringing much less to the game now, than what he did with Infinite. Thats just my opinion.

[Da Brakes]

Exactly! I wasn't comparing the songs subject matter but making reference to Em's rhyme scheme, wordplay etc. Show me songs today Em has done with the same lyrical structure as his early work and I'll admit I'm wrong :chuks:

[bigted]

Really over the past few years Em's rhyme pattern has been real elementary, similar to 50 Cent's, although I liked some songs on 50's first album, his rhymes were never amazing, he always uses basic rhymes, it makes you wonder if 50's writing for Em now, lol, really at this point I could defeat both of them easily no problem, they ain't on my level, the peeps gonna see soon enough

Edited December 14, 2006 by bigted

[ash trey]

I've always had a soft spot for Eminem...He was the first hip hop artist I really got into. As others have pointed out Eminem now and Eminem than are on completely different levels. The rhyme schemes where complex...the lines were funny...intelligent and entertaining.I have most of Slim Shady LP and a few tracks from the Marshall Mathers LP and Eminem Show memorized ...so I still consider his old music as all time favorites.

I think Eminem's career Encore onwards did not do justice to his early material...although if u listen thru the whole album there are a couple of tracks that are actually ok....but u have to be a fan of his early material to listen to it. As AJ said Em is surrounding himself with some of the wackest artists in the industry....I don't know if it's due to that or Proof's death that his music suddenly became simplistic, fake and annoying.

I don't know how much attention to pay towards what Em said to Cozmo D....but Proof couldn't have been responsible for everything dope Em did in his career.

Ludacris is not bad...quite an ok rapper...i just love the way how he's getting on the whole mature,positive tip.

So in conclusion Ludacris is somewhere inbetween top 75-100.

Old Em was top 50 (top 10 in my favourites list but I'm talking skillz wise)....New Em is not really worthy of rating.

[Cozmo D]

Really over the past few years Em's rhyme pattern has been real elementary, similar to 50 Cent's, although I liked some songs on 50's first album, his rhymes were never amazing, he always uses basic rhymes, it makes you wonder if 50's writing for Em now, lol

You know, IF what my son and I were originally thinking, that Em was biting Proof's style for the earlier stuff, then it may just follow that he started biting 50's stuff when he came on board. This joke of yours might not be as funny (or maybe it's even funnier) than you think!

Again, I am clueless because I have totally tuned out to Em after "Lose Yourself" or so. However, bite or ghostwritten, there is NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that Em's and Proof's styles used to be identical!

[Hero1]

Well whenever I heard D12's stuff I always thought that Proof had skills.. It would make a lot of sense.. Proof was highly talented.. and Eminem is clearly not at the same level these days

[Hero1]

I think if you listen enough to can pick up on ghostwriters.. when I heard the Lost & found track.. before the album came out(and i'd seen the credits) I knew skillz had his hand in that track.. Will was using skillz flow..

But when ya’ll talk about rap

Ya’ll gon start saying my name

For real though I ain’t playin

Plenty of ya’ll love a brotha just scared to say it

Yo the first ever rap grammy

Let’s talk about the only reason yo ass went to Miami

I'm not a fan of ghostwriting.. and a lot of it is still soing on.. people need to write their own material :bufordpusser:

[Cozmo D]

I'm not a fan of ghostwriting.. and a lot of it is still soing on.. people need to write their own material :bufordpusser:

WORD! I will NEVER respect ANY MC or even ANY rapper who lets somebody else write their rhymes!

[Da Brakes]

Thats the truth!! I really frown when I hear that Will has co writers and stuff for his songs! Part of being a rapper is doing it yourself and people identifying/respecting your style. Not some ghostwriter!

If your not good enough to write your own lyrics then to put it simply you shouldn't be rapping! :eusa_snooty:

[Cozmo D]

Thats the truth!! I really frown when I hear that Will has co writers and stuff for his songs! Part of being a rapper is doing it yourself and people identifying/respecting your style. Not some ghostwriter!

If your not good enough to write your own lyrics then to put it simply you shouldn't be rapping! :eusa_snooty:

WORD!

I was really surprised when I heard that about Will. I just chalk it up to the fact that he's grown too busy in other endeavors to devote the amount of time and effort that is necessary to his first craft. I can understand that, but before I would disrespect my craft by using a ghostwriter I would stop rapping all together.

[DaAce]

word... to me, when i found out about Will a couple years ago, i took it eaxactly how Cozmo interpreted it

but ghostwriting is just silly in HipHop... i really have no comments towards this

[Guest Guest_bigted_*]

Man Will's a proven mc though over and over though, it don't matter if others help him with his rhymes once in a while now since he's older and might have a lot more things to do with his family than sit around and write rhymes all the time like he used to, like Paris ghostwrote some stuff for Chuck D on the last Public Enemy album but really that don't change my opinion on Chuck D, man the guys who created great albums like "He's The DJ..." and "Nations Of Millions" have nothing to prove, really Eminem was never on that level like that anyway, he had some nice rhymes before but never was he really one of the best ever so ghostwriters or not with him it don't matter....

[Da Brakes]

But the thing is with Will its not really once in a while! The majority of stuff he's out over the past few years has had influence from either Skillz or Kel.

[bigted]

So you'd rather see Will not do anymore albums and just do movies if he don't write all his rhymes? Hell I want to see Will rap at 60 years old even if I write the whole damn album for him myself, the music does represent who he is though, basically Kel and Skillz are positive people just like him so that's why he works with them, really Will's best rhymes were on the JJFP albums anyway that he wrote all himself and not to knock Kel and Skillz but really they should spend more time working on their stuff and getting big in the game themselves instead of giving other rappers hit songs, lol, Will could've retired after "Code Red" and still be one of the top mcs ever, basically it's just doing it for the love at this point, maybe he needs to hire babysitters and not see his kids much and take time off of his movies and lock himself in the studio with Jeff and dig deep for something, lol, now if I hear 50 Cent writing rhymes for LL's new album I might just kill myself not literally but I'd be quite upset 'cause LL had some ghostwriters on his last album so maybe he might have 50 Cent be one of his writers this time and if that happens the album's gonna be weak, basically most rappers over 35 need ghostwriters since they don't live the bachelor life anymore, they have more things to do and they can't sit around and write rhymes like they used to, nothing wrong with that, they proved themselves already, Eminem on the other hand never proven himself, his rhymes are garbage on the mostpart and he raps about negative stuff, I don't feel him at all, he's a child compared to Will, LL, Chuck D, and all the legends...

Edited December 15, 2006 by bigted

[Da Brakes]

So you'd rather see Will not do anymore albums and just do movies if he don't write all his rhymes?

No. I'd rather Will write ALL of his rhymes ALL of the time. He's proved he can do it throughout his JJFP era so why stop now? :shrug: