McCain Chooses Palin As Running Mate

[MaxFly]

You know, Joe Leiberman has greatly disappointed me of late. If I felt that he truly held the convictions he claims to, I'd have no problem with him. However, Joe was highly critical of President Bush before he won in 2000 and he's been critical of his policies since... John McCain has boasted about agreeing with President Bush at least 90% of the time. Something doesn't jive here... Leiberman's support of McCain hinges on the war, yet McCain's position has slowly shifted to Obama's stance concerning withdrawing troops with an eye to the conditions on the ground. I have an uneasy feeling that Leiberman is simply looking to get back at the democrats for trying to oust him and he is being disingenuous with his support of the GOP.

[Schnazz]

My Democratic friends know all about John's record of independence and accomplishment.

Maybe that's why some of them are spending so much time and so much money trying to convince voters that John McCain is someone else.

While there's nothing wrong with Lieberman making that pitch, that's how politics work, it's actually John McCain who's tried to convince people he was something else. John McCain made a calculated move away from his maverick independent ways to embrace the more conservative side of the Republican party. It was a move that paid off, but he did in fact move that way. Right now the Republicans are trying to have their cake and eat it too, it's a perfect opportunity for Democrats to attack, they'd be idiots not call them on it. Though, come to think of it, I'm kinda surprised they are attacking on it.

That reminds me, was it just me or was the tone of the two conventions starkly different? The Republican convention seemed a lot darker and aggressive than the Democratic convention.

[Bob]

My hope is that McCain's moves to the right are only by calculation. I think the 2000 McCain is probably the best presidential candidate our country has seen in decades. This McCain is good enough for me, and I think the fact Lieberman is willing to go with McCain reassures me that John is still the same guy, but smart enough to make the right moves at this moment.

And let's not forget Obama has been twisting around everything from public finance, to FISA, to the Death Penalty, to NAFTA. He made his appeal in the primaries to the liberal audience, and now he's made some sharp changes.

I agree the conventions are different in tone, mainly because I always find the GOP to be so focused on one goal: get their nominee the advantage and do it as efficiently as possible. The DNC had many speakers up talking about themselves, trying to recreate the amazing speech Obama gave in 2004. I wouldn't say darker, but much more about the battle in getting votes, rather than the discussion of getting on the right track.

It has shown to work in the past. Plus, I don't know if you saw, Sarah Palin really put together a great speech. Guiliani pissed me off for dismissing Obama when Guiliani has one policy: 9/11. Taxes? 9/11. Abortion? 9/11. Healthcare? 9/11.

[Schnazz]

And let's not forget Obama has been twisting around everything from public finance, to FISA, to the Death Penalty, to NAFTA. He made his appeal in the primaries to the liberal audience, and now he's made some sharp changes.

That's a neat trick, but I didn't attack McCain for "twisting" things, I only stated that if he wants to change his stance, he accept attacks based on his new stance. Changing your views on something can be good, some people even call it "growth" Though the more cynical folks call it "pandering" :)

Plus, I don't know if you saw, Sarah Palin really put together a great speech.

I thought here speech was ok, it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm far from her target audience. The only thing that bothered me was when she made a joke about legal rights (Obama wanting terrorists read their rights) and the entire audience laughed. It's frightening when a major political figure in this country mocks legal rights and everyone laughs along.

Though Huck was charming as always!

Edited September 4, 2008 by Schnazz

[Typhoon20]

You guys really know what you're talking about, great comments all around. You know it's beyond great when even Visqo makes a long well thought good post.

But does anyone else get annoyed by Palin as much as me ? Her speech felt ''cringeworthy'' to me.

The whole ''family issue'' and the way they handled it lately didn't help much either.

I'm really looking forward to Obama vs Palin, Palin took a weak shot against Obama and I can't wait till Obama gets his chance to address Palin, he's going to pown them. I don't think Palin or McCain are capable enough to go 1 on 1 with Obama.

It's going to be pretty historical watching Obama take on the republicans (Palin, McCain). I personally think it's going to be pretty ugly for the republicans.

[Bob]

That's a neat trick, but I didn't attack McCain for "twisting" things, I only stated that if he wants to change his stance, he accept attacks based on his new stance. Changing your views on something can be good, some people even call it "growth" Though the more cynical folks call it "pandering" :)

I thought here speech was ok, it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm far from her target audience. The only thing that bothered me was when she made a joke about legal rights (Obama wanting terrorists read their rights) and the entire audience laughed. It's frightening when a major political figure in this country mocks legal rights and everyone laughs along.

Though Huck was charming as always!

Quantatively, I agree more with Obama...or at least Obama before he switched on FISA and the others. I think giving immunity to telecoms is BS. I believe the death penalty should be done away with, not only b/c I think it's immoral but the system has institutionalized racism, thus more black and hispanic men are put on death row. Obama fought that in Chicago and I thought that was admirable. And I'm a big public financing person; I actually like the Clean Money financing system.

In short, it wasn't an attack as much as an expression of annoyance with both candidates.

They both have pandered, as McCain once accurately said Jerry Falwell was an agent of intolerance, and then went back on that. He said the Bush tax cuts "disgusted" him by the absolutely lopsided breaks for big business.

And Huckabee makes me mad.

He's so disarming, it would be cool....except he publicly supports amending the Constitution to follow the Bible. That's dangerous.

[Hero1]

Typical bush rhetoric from one of bush's writers I thought.. the whole attack our enemies yadda yadda stuff I find sickening.. It s the kind of attitude that will get us into world war 3.. If something happened to McCain and Palin became president I'd be very very worried.

[MaxFly]

And let's not forget Obama has been twisting around everything from public finance, to FISA, to the Death Penalty, to NAFTA. He made his appeal in the primaries to the liberal audience, and now he's made some sharp changes.

I think Obama's positions on those issues are nuanced and somewhat intricate. I don't think he's really twisted those issues. Take public finance for example. Obama stated before he started running that if he and John McCain ended up running against eachother for the presidency, he and McCain should opt into public financing, the reason being that he believed lobbyists and big corporations had too much influence in the campaign financing and ultimate election of government officials. When it came time to declare what he would do, Obama decided against public financing... sounds horrible.

However, Obama opted instead to raise the majority of his money through small individual contributions over the internet. He's frozen out the lobbyists, especially those of the big industries. He's basically adhered to the spirit of his pledge, though not the letter of it. Secondly, we have a problem with 527s. They are are independent groups, independently funded, that can buy ads for television and basically campaign against a nominee... the most famous being the Swiftboat Veterans in the 2004 election. They savaged John Kerry with false charges calling into question his patriotism and his service in Vietnam. This year, we will have similar operatives on the right. Jerome Corsi, a gentleman connected to the Swiftboat Veterans, has written a book about Obama entitled, "Unfit for Command" that is riddled with lies and false charges. He questions whether Obama used drugs in the senate, accuses him of being a radical muslim and other such foolishness? The book is at the top of the New York Times list. How do you fight those smears with limited funds? It was a calculated move to be sure, but it's not nearly as bad as it's been made out to be.

I agree the conventions are different in tone, mainly because I always find the GOP to be so focused on one goal: get their nominee the advantage and do it as efficiently as possible. The DNC had many speakers up talking about themselves, trying to recreate the amazing speech Obama gave in 2004. I wouldn't say darker, but much more about the battle in getting votes, rather than the discussion of getting on the right track.

Perhaps not dark, but certainly more negative. Unfortunately, the Republicans haven't really addressed any of the numerous issues that are on the plate this year. They've been too busy slamming Obama.

It has shown to work in the past. Plus, I don't know if you saw, Sarah Palin really put together a great speech. Guiliani pissed me off for dismissing Obama when Guiliani has one policy: 9/11. Taxes? 9/11. Abortion? 9/11. Healthcare? 9/11.

Someone wrote a great speech for Sarah Palin, and she did an excellent job delivering it. She rallied the base and provided an infusion of energy for the campaign. Unfortunately, the speech wasn't heavy on substance and even worse, it wasn't heavy on truth. There were far, far too many disingenuous statements, even for a political speech of this nature.

[MaxFly]

Though Huck was charming as always!

Huck was great!!!

[MissAshley]

Typical bush rhetoric from one of bush's writers I thought.. the whole attack our enemies yadda yadda stuff I find sickening.. It s the kind of attitude that will get us into world war 3.. If something happened to McCain and Palin became president I'd be very very worried.

:yeahthat:

[Bob]

However, Obama opted instead to raise the majority of his money through small individual contributions over the internet. He's frozen out the lobbyists, especially those of the big industries. He's basically adhered to the spirit of his pledge, though not the letter of it.

Eh, I'd have to say that is the biggest misnomer of the campaign.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=30705

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/200...s-bundlers.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/29/lobbyists/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8041004045.html

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/bundlers.php?id=N00009638

While it is true he certainly has raised more than any other candidate in history in small donations, his campaign is tied deeply to Wall Street and major law firms. He is definitely absorbing less from bundlers than McCain, and his lobbyist ties are less distinct, but he certainly has not frozen out the lobbyists. Even more dangerous, though, is that big investment bank CEO's are all putting their resources together. They have a heavy hand in his campaign.

[Schnazz]

And Huckabee makes me mad.

He's so disarming, it would be cool....except he publicly supports amending the Constitution to follow the Bible. That's dangerous.

Well, I'm not saying that I'd vote for him but I sure would like to hang out with him!

Typical bush rhetoric from one of bush's writers I thought.. the whole attack our enemies yadda yadda stuff I find sickening.. It s the kind of attitude that will get us into world war 3.. If something happened to McCain and Palin became president I'd be very very worried.

Yea, I agree, it was seriously militaristic. And as far as Palin... When it got narrowed down to McCain, Clinton, and Obama, I was relieved that the country was finally going to be heading in a good direction, the Palin selection has destroyed that feeling.

[3cookies]

I do not enjoy participating in debates on these sort of topics, because it can get heated, and I rather stay from heated debates... BUT

I was watching Obama and McCain one day, going over issues in the Hispanic community and how would resolve them if elected.. and out of nowhere, an onlooker jumped up and was outright rude and saying such harsh things to McCain (that didnt happen when Obama was speaking, which was a strong stance in how he presented himself verbally, in my view of the two candidates )

but back on Mccain. His demeanor, his reaction, and everything was just way too sensitive and I honestly thought the he was going to cry. I felt so sorry for him, and could never see him on the front lines with me in a war zone. I would NOT go to battle with him....nor would I be confident that he would always make the right choices based on needs of the American communities across the nation....

thats just my view as a military veteran.. AND a woman.

xo

cookie

[Schnazz]

Courtesy of www.factcheck.org , the truthfulness of Palin's speech: link

And to be a bit fair, Obama's fact check: link

[MaxFly]

However, Obama opted instead to raise the majority of his money through small individual contributions over the internet. He's frozen out the lobbyists, especially those of the big industries. He's basically adhered to the spirit of his pledge, though not the letter of it.

Eh, I'd have to say that is the biggest misnomer of the campaign.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=30705

http://www.usnews.com/articles/opinion/200...s-bundlers.html

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/29/lobbyists/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...8041004045.html

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/bundlers.php?id=N00009638

During this campaign, lobbyists and trade groups donated $181,000 to McCain, while Obama received $6,000, according to the New York Times. In all, lobbyists reported contributions of $4.7 million to Democrats and $3.3 million to Republicans, the Times reported this week.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/07/29/lobbyists/

6,000 from washington lobbyists is extremely good considering McCain has recieved 30 times as much. If you don't consider that freezing out lobbyists, I don't know what to say.

"We know that Barack Obama has raised at least $52.2 million from bundlers, or about 18 percent of his overall receipts," Krumholz said.

Obama's campaign figures show that 94 percent of the money going to Obama comes from people writing checks for $200 or less.

Those are impressive numbers as well... 94% of his money comes from small donations and only 18% from bundlers. It's important to note that all those that give to a bundler have to be listed. Also note the overlap of the 94% figure and the 18% figure from bundlers. This means that an extremely large percentage of those that give to bundlers give $200 or less... I think it's safe to say that Obama has wildly diverged from the way campaigns generally raise money... again, in keeping with the spirit of his pledge at the start of the campaign season. One last thing... most of his bundlers do come from law firms and wall street, but if you look at the the specific companies for which individual bundlers work, you'll notice that they are wildly varied. You don't have a single company making up a large percentage of donations... again, because most people are donating 200 dollars or less.

Edited September 5, 2008 by MaxFly