Religulous

[JumpinJack AJ]

I refuse 2 waste energy disagreeing and fighting on something like this cuz i have a certain level of respect for anyone believeing in whatever they want. When i said someone without faith has nothing 2 stand up for, i was speaking spiritually. If u have no one way 2 believe, u do have nothing 2 say in that area. I'm not saying they don't have an opinion on this or that, i was speaking on believes of a spiritual matter.

And when it comes 2 being married. I'm okay with gay couples having a civil union or whatever. But i am against them being officially "married." Marriage is something in the Bible that is to be between a man an a woman. I know a good bit of gay people. I have no prejudice towards them. Some of them are some of my best friends and we've even had this same conversation. Even as a gay Christian, many of them respect that it's between a man and a woman. Of course, in these days of church and state being seperated (and they wonder why the world sucks), marriage is viewed as generic kind of thing that u can do at a courthouse after filling out paperwork...which i don't consider marriage at all....and we also wonder why 50% of marriages end in divorce.

Touchy subject...i bow out. Nothing i've said is intended 2 insult or offend anyone so i apologize to anyone who views a difference of opinion as me attempting 2 do so. Like i said in the beginning...People are people, we have our beliefs but there is no reason 2 openly insult or try 2 upset people who don't agree with u.

[Cozmo D]

For instance he tried to claim the Pope was not in the Bible (Matthew)

Chapter and verse please? :sipread:

[Bob]

For instance he tried to claim the Pope was not in the Bible (Matthew)

Chapter and verse please? :sipread:

Matthew 16:18

The very reason why Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter (Petros, Pope, Rock) was to establish a man who would hold the keys to the Church and lead the visible Church on earth.

Edited October 7, 2008 by Bob

[Cozmo D]

For instance he tried to claim the Pope was not in the Bible (Matthew)

Chapter and verse please? :sipread:

Matthew 16:18

The very reason why Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter (Petros, Pope, Rock) was to establish a man who would hold the keys to the Church and lead the visible Church on earth.

Peter means rock, but Pope means father. It is the traditional title given to the Bishop of Rome. Though tradition also holds that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, there is no mention of a Pope or a Bishop or Peter even traveling to Rome in the Bible.

[Bob]

Peter means rock, but Pope means father. It is the traditional title given to the Bishop of Rome. Though tradition also holds that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, there is no mention of a Pope or a Bishop or Peter even traveling to Rome in the Bible.

Go to the original language, and you'll see "Kephas" (sorry about the spelling). Peter was the first Pope. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, as the other Apostles are Bishops as well. Peter is consulted in issues of faith in the New Testament. Peter, Petros, Kephas, Pope all are under the root idea that Jesus left the keys to the Kingdom (in the next verse) to Peter.

I do Catholic Apologetics, so I'm very well aquainted with the history of the question you raise.

If you see Matthew 16:18-19, you first see Jesus make Peter the rock. (Some question translations, trying to say a gender difference in the translation of rock, but it really is an issue of Jesus masculinizing the word rock in the original written language, as to not call Peter a female rock...but that's deep into the discussion, not neccessarily what you raise)

Then you can look later in John 21:15-17 where Jesus reaffirms Peter as the leader of his sheep.

And then finally, so to not confuse the power granted to Peter with the positions of the other Apostles, Jesus affirmed the faith of the other Apostles in him as the leader of the visible Church (Luke 22:32).

So when all said and done, yes, there is the Pope, the leader of the Church directly in the New Testament. This is all an aside when recognizing the Bible doesn't constitute all of Christianity, considering it's compilation happened long after Jesus died and Christianity began. That's the oral tradition that many miss. Yet the scriptures didn't come until decades after the death of Jesus, and his Apostles were already practicing the sacraments (like reconciliation John 20:23) that were later affirmed in the written portion of the faith.

So I hope that cleared up any confusion.

[Cozmo D]

Peter means rock, but Pope means father. It is the traditional title given to the Bishop of Rome. Though tradition also holds that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome, there is no mention of a Pope or a Bishop or Peter even traveling to Rome in the Bible.

Go to the original language, and you'll see "Kephas" (sorry about the spelling). Peter was the first Pope. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, as the other Apostles are Bishops as well. Peter is consulted in issues of faith in the New Testament. Peter, Petros, Kephas, Pope all are under the root idea that Jesus left the keys to the Kingdom (in the next verse) to Peter.

I do Catholic Apologetics, so I'm very well aquainted with the history of the question you raise.

If you see Matthew 16:18-19, you first see Jesus make Peter the rock. (Some question translations, trying to say a gender difference in the translation of rock, but it really is an issue of Jesus masculinizing the word rock in the original written language, as to not call Peter a female rock...but that's deep into the discussion, not neccessarily what you raise)

Then you can look later in John 21:15-17 where Jesus reaffirms Peter as the leader of his sheep.

And then finally, so to not confuse the power granted to Peter with the positions of the other Apostles, Jesus affirmed the faith of the other Apostles in him as the leader of the visible Church (Luke 22:32).

So when all said and done, yes, there is the Pope, the leader of the Church directly in the New Testament. This is all an aside when recognizing the Bible doesn't constitute all of Christianity, considering it's compilation happened long after Jesus died and Christianity began. That's the oral tradition that many miss. Yet the scriptures didn't come until decades after the death of Jesus, and his Apostles were already practicing the sacraments (like reconciliation John 20:23) that were later affirmed in the written portion of the faith.

So I hope that cleared up any confusion.

Kephas means rock, petros means rock, Peter means rock, Pope means father. Yes, Jesus made Peter the leader of the Church, of that there is no doubt. However, the Pope is the Bishop of Rome and neither term appears in the Bible. Maher was right.

If you want to start another thread to delve more deeply into the Bible and Christian history I'd be more than happy to participate, as I have studied both fairly extensively for the last 32 years.