Chuck D flips 'Otis'

[Big Ben]

I just wanna bring something to your attention again:

"If the Palestinians took up arms, went into Israel and killed all the Jews, it'd be alright" .-Professor Griff (Founding member of Public Enemy) in Melody Maker (May 28, 1988 Issue)

This is one of the clearly insane things members of Public Enemy have said over the years.

Now if you excuse me, I'll go back to listening Otis. Don't believe the Hype.

P.S. Just in case ya'll wanna start something about me being disrespectfull: I've heard every PE album more than one time. I know they are Legends. But so is Hove.

Difference is Chuck D is the one saying it, and if I remember correctly Griff was reprimanded for saying it by fellow members of their group. I believe you think they are legends, you quoted them, so no argument there. Though I have a more difficult time placing Jay-Z on the same status as PE. Problem is Jay-Z has never really done anything, in my opinion, that has made a huge impact. Throughout his career he's repeatedly followed other, emulating their style, and basically holding onto their coattails. I believe we're seeing it now, with Kanye. Just my opinion. And it's okay if you guys jump on me for being disrespectful: For I fear not the internet gangsta. J/K

And if we need to use quotes just a quick "Kanye stupid quote" search come up with plenty.

"I'M A POP ENIGMA. I LIVE AND BREATHE EVERY ELEMENT IN LIFE. I ROCK A BESPOKE SUIT AND I GOT TO HAROLD'S FOR FRIED CHICKEN. IT'S ALL THESE THINGS AT ONCE, BECAUSE, AS A TASTEMAKER, I FIND THE BEST OF EVERYTHING. THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE BEST AT AND CERTAIN THINGS THAT WHITE PEOPLE ARE THE BEST AT. WHATEVER WE AS BLACK PEOPLE ARE THE BEST AT, I'M A GO GET THAT. LIKE, ON CHRISTMAS, I DON'T BUY ANY FOOD THAT TASTES WHITE. AND WHEN I GO TO PURCHASE A HOUSE I DON'T WANT MY CREDIT TO LOOK BLACK."

""IF IT WASN'T FOR RACE MIXING THERE'D BE NO VIDEO GIRLS. ME AND MOST OF OUR FRIENDS LIKE MUTTS A LOT. YEAH, IN THE HOOD THEY CALL 'EM MUTTS."

Sorry for the cap's, didn't feel like typing it all up, and the source had it this way.

[Turntable]

Oh yeah Kanye said some stupid ish, but he is no way near Griff. Now I know PE eventualy kicked Griff out - but only when it stardet to hurt business. Before his comments (this one and other ones) went national, Chuck D gave intervieuws devending Griff and saying that the Group is behind everything Griff says. Now as soon as the news went national, they had a problem - the biggest one was the fact that a multimillion dollar record deal was about to fall through because of the controversy. That is when Chuck, under pressure by Bill Stephney and Hank Shocklee, decided to kick Griff out. Now, by the standarts of Hip Hop everyhwere - I believe we call that selling out. Meanwhile, they still kept it tight with Farrakhan, who was busy promoting and dispersing Henry Fords "The International Jew" - a ****ed upped book from which Griff got most of his Bull****. Talk about swag. If you dont believe me, read up on it. It's all true. I can recomend Jeff Changs "A History of the Hip Hop Generation" - he also wrote a lot about Public Enemy in that book (incl. bibliography, foot notes and interviews with Chuck, Bill Stephney and Hank and many others that had to do with this - just in case there is any doubt to what he writes).

About Jay-Z: I agree with the fact that he hasn't been a big game changer like PE or Rakim and so on. But not every legend has to be. On the other hand, he did influence a lot of rappers that came out after him, so he did have a influence somehow. The list is endless realy. You can ask most of your favorite rappers and chances are Jay-Z is in their top 10. Next to that, during his career he always pushed new talent - and not only the ones who commercial appeal. I mean he is the one that signs and pushes J. Cole, a dude with a real flow and soul-sample beats, even though we are in a ringtone age (same goes for Kanye back in the day btw), he signed The Roots and Nas to Def Jam and so on. He has been in the game for a long time now and he managed to stay relevant and succesfull. He always managed to change his style and sound. And last, but not least, he made at least two, arguably three albums that are widely regarded as classics. I beleive that is enough. Oh and dude can spit.

Edited August 28, 2011 by Turntable

[VIsqo]

Yeah I believe Jay has done enough on the rap world to be a top 10 in every list.

[bigted]

to put jay-z in the top 10 is a disrespect to the history of hip hop

[Big Ben]

Oh yeah Kanye said some stupid ish, but he is no way near Griff.

I can't take that as a legitimate argument, any racial or ethnic discrimination is horrible. It's starts with one comment, or one idea, and can spread. In that I fault both Kanye and Griff, I can't rate one as worse and more worse.

[Turntable]

to put jay-z in the top 10 is a disrespect to the history of hip hop

Well then you should never ask your favorite rappers about their favorite rappers cause some of them are bound to have Jay-Z on there

Edited August 29, 2011 by Turntable

[mfuqua23]

OK, first listen and view; here's what went thru my head. (about K& J's Otis).

I happened to turn on BET one day and leave it there. Coming in at #2 video, the most hyped rap super group ever Jay-Z & Kanye West, "Otis". Before I hear it, I'm intrigued because you don't see song titles with names in them or about people. I recognize it's an Otis Redding sample. But the song is not about Otis, or even referenced to from what I heard. And there's no change up really to the beat. The song is about them, them, them.

Why title the song Otis then? Because you used an Otis sample? Does OTIS mean something? Outstanding Talk In Swag? And just the other day, VH1 had In Living Color on, and PE was the music act. Wow, what a difference the times make. It's not 100%, but the majority feel of the world, or US, is individualism. Everything is so fast, and consider yourself lucky if you last a week, let alone a year. Is there nothing to stand up about anymore? Or do people just choose not too? Or is it so common place and widespread, there isn't focus on any one cause?

As much as I used to detest and hate the way the music industry is, there's a combination of things that make it the way it is. Times will change, they always have. I'm just wondering what state of hip hop will be next? Is there any new creative venture we haven't seen yet? Even something as simple as Amy Winehouse style, opening the door for the likes of Adele, and such to be mainstream accepted. . For Jay-Z, Kanye, Drake, Lil Wayne, etc, do you want to hear how creativity they can get in talking about how successful they are? Does that inspire you to do the same in your life in some way? Maybe that's why people do. I'm sure if roles were reversed, we would get sick of hearing about social standings in hip hop. The mainstream presents a standard in hip hop, and it gets a bad rap from some people (pun intended if it was one, ha), but then you question there viewpoint, give them a cd I made, or Da Brakes, or Talib Kweli, or someone they haven't heard, and that alone can widen the spectrum.

Truth be told, somewhere hip hop lost a unity it once possessed. Or can you tell me that NWA, JJFP, every rap act assembled because they were told to, in relation to the first rap grammy and it not being televised?

[bigted]

word to what michael said there, and to what turntable said a lot of times when rappers make lists of their favorite rappers it's done in a politically correct fashion

[Turntable]

Which is also called selling out btw.. If it would be true.. I doubt that. People just want to believe that because they can't handle the fact that they hace tunnel view and theyr favorite MC's dont. Except KRS ofcourse.. with his Hip Hop Bible bull****.. Get a grip. I know he is a Legend, but he realy lost it at some point. He is bitter and sometimes says and does very weird things and he acts like he is the ONLY ONE that knows Hip Hop. Next too that I think he is "overrated" - I know he made some ground breaking records, but that is a while ago.. When it comes to skillz he ins't that special and when it comes to content.. A lot of people came out since he was on his high point.. And a lot of them have more thing to say. I will always respect him, he made osme very important records and I realy am thankfull about that - but he is noweher near being one of the best MC's dead or alive. Kurtis Blow also was groundbreaking - people do not walk around acting like he is the God MC.

Edited August 31, 2011 by Turntable

[JumpinJack AJ]

Fuq, your post was dope! I think I agree with everything you said.

I don't have the time to post something as dope as that. All I can say is that what is popular is not Hip-Hop. It has nothing to do with Hip-Hop culture and it isn't even created on a foundation of Hip-Hop. I remember when it was exciting, important, and uplifting to be a fan of Hip-Hop. It was a movement and it was on the radio.

Today is a joke. Voices are wack, deliveries are lazy. Production is either overdone or underdone and sounds awful either way. Artists are immature, ignorant, selfish fools. The music sucks.

I peeped the Jay-Z/Kanye project and I think I liked about 7 of the beats. I didn't hear the full songs so I wasn't able to hear the songs. I kind of have the feeling that Jay-Z will be alright and that Kanye is probably less than good. If I find it for the right price, I may pick it up (y'all know I like CDs and not downloads...though I get downloads of stuff I don't care about that much).

Turntable, in all fairness, I can see where you get that view of KRS-One. I think it's a matter of perspective though rather than absolute truth. I think he is consistent and that most of his new music is just as good as his old music. It's just that he's not getting his videos aired on Yo! MTV Raps to get success. I don't see him as paranoid...what does have to worry about when it comes to the lack of skills of the current kids? Is Drake or Lil' Wayne really a threat to his lyrical thrown? Heck 2 the Nizzo!! I relate to some of his actions in the sense that some people think what is popular is good. It's not. Some people think it's Hip-Hop. It's not. I am simply not okay with the fact that people think that idiots like Lil' Wayne represent Hip-Hop simply because they are not of Hip-Hop and don't know the difference between Hip-Hop music and rap...and commercial rap at that. What's wrong with calling garbage music "garbage music."

[Turntable]

Well.. I never said Lil Wayne is better than him.. So I hope the last bit wasn't directed at me. And dont give me that "I understand you dont get it because he is not on MTV"-ish.. Come on man. Chances are I know three times as many dope "underground" Rappers/Newcomers than you do. While your are complaining about the state of Hip Hop, I am listening to Phil Ade and Black Milk and so on.. The damn list is endless man, I am nowhere close to listening to all the dope stuff that is being released, for money and for free. I just do not have enough time, no one has... And please dont tell me that is not true, because I know for a fact that you did not even hear 80% of the stuff I am talking about. Hip Hop is as dope is it ever was man, fudge Charts.. Common came out selling 1500 copies of his first album man, and now (partly thanks to Kanye) he is a Hip Hop Superstar.. Dont believe the Hype. How is Hip Hop not exciting anymore? I think never since the late 80's and early 90's there have been so many Kids out there making Beats and rapping (and releasing dope ish for free) just for the fun of it, because they know they probably will not end up earning any real money. Oh and about 90% of them are inspired by College Dropout and The Black Album - so dont you people tell me Kanye and Jigga aren't Legends in their own right.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Turntable

[dparrott]

"I dont wanna sit around all day getting reminded that life sucks."

Good for you. Personally, I'd rather hear about someone rappin' about real life than some hip-hop executive fantasy world that a small percentage of people can relate to. None of us have what Kanye or Jay-Z has, it's like they're waving it in our faces. And so many other "artists" are following their lead...it's degrading the artform further.

As times change, the world's opinion of what is "great" does also. It's gotten so bad that the almighty Dr. Dre has some rocker chick singing on his big comeback single. That NEVER would have happened 10-20 years ago! But he had to do what the industry dictates is "relevant".

[Vipa]

...Why can't we have both? Why are we forcing a Jay Z vs Chuck D debate? A top 10 list is completely opinionated. Jay Z would be in mine and I don't feel I'm insulting Hip Hop because of that...and to simply disregard anyone who lists Jay Z in their top 10 as a Sell-Out, or as someone who is just doing it to be politically correct is pretty much just ignoring truth...They like Jay Z, they put him in their top 10...Thinking Jay Z is a top 10 rapper is NOT an insult to Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, etc, etc....

Jay Z raps about his life, where he came from, etc....But he's also not in that life anymore. He's a Multi-Million dollar business man....now he raps about his life as it is, not ALWAYS as it was....I have absolutely NO problem with that...

[mfuqua23]

If this were facebook-ish type forum, I would LIKE every comment that came after mine.

"Don't go for the best in the game, go for the best in ya brain/
Cuz ya conscious is responsive, make you sane or insane/" - uhh...Me "Pass The Mic" with Mike Petrow fka Concept. (maybe you've heard of us?

"there have been so many Kids out there making Beats and rapping (and releasing dope ish for free) just for the fun of it, because they know they probably will not end up earning any real money." - Turntable
~ We are the likes of the ones he's talking about.

"If the money all burns, all we got is our words/
and if we can't speak no more, we got what we deserved" - uhh... Me again "Beyond" (if they Armageddon in Hip Hop hit and there was no money in it, who would still be rapping?

I'm not trying to self promote really, but this is what goes on in my psyche that gets transferred to the paper, to the mic, to the cd, to the world. Have people said similar, sure. That's all day, everyday with what's said based on subject matter. It's just a matter of who feels what and how it's said.

On 'The MC: Why We Do It', I remember Will.i.am. Saying that Cash Money and Slick Rick are no different, because of the whole bling-bling. What they rap about is different, but what they wear is not. Rakim, one of the best to touch a pen, paper, and microphone wore thick gold chains. Reap the rewards based on skill. Now it's popularity. I used to, and sometimes still do confuse the heck out of myself on what I'll say, because I don't want to use too simple words, or rap too intelligent and use big words on purpose. Yet, I just listened to 50 Cent today (Get Rich or Die Trying soundtrack), and ENJOYED it. And I've bumped Hieroglyphics Third Eye Vision last week. Diverse human beings listen to diverse things. What sucks about the industry now, is the majority of record labels that exist, are trying to keep existing. They are earnings a living just like us. And they're job is to sell what will sell. And it's too the point where they will only sign artists who are in demand (which makes sense), and who will allow themselves to be molded into what will sell (which also makes sense, but from a self-respect point does not). And this is across the board in certain businesses.

It was refreshing to see Kid Cudi come into hip hop. It was with Kanye when he first came out, and we were dominated by 50 Cent, Jay-Z, Ja Rule, etc. I dare someone to do research of who would be the best rap artist each year, based on mainstream perspective. It has changed. The 2000s is pretty much owned by Jay-Z. Then Lil Wayne a year or two, now Drake. 1996 would be 2pac. 1997=BIG. (but of course there are names they could trade the #1 spot with, but overall that's who it is.). And I bet, BET, that there were probably people writing rhymes thinking they were just as good or better than "hottest rapper" that year, and they didn't have the internet. Do you know how many artists would not exist today if it weren't for the internet??? Granted the net is great and all, but you still have to meet in reality with the people. I think to what LL Cool J did, where he got all labels addressed and sent his tape. And some college dorm kid, who was aspiring to start a label heard his tape. Went thru hundreds but still came back to LL, why?? Because he was amazing and dope, and whatever positive word you can think of, that's why. LL Cool J was one of the top rappers and still got hated on by those on the lower ladder, both signed and unsigned, or even just everyday people for that matter. LL rapped intently about his radio, passionately about the ladies, pissed off and knocking out haters. Artists can be as diverse as they want to be, and so too can those who listen to music.

Us arguing, debating, fighting, or whatever. (it's makes for intriguing discussion and who can hate that?) over who truly is the best is like the divide that exists in race, religion or politics. Thank God it's not as severe and we want to kill each other. I think the debate has gotten tired because we did the same thing 5 years ago. We really need Will Smith because we got nothing better to do. haha. (oh wait, yes we do, make a Forum album.) Remember Common vs Ice Cube? Or 50 Cent vs Kanye West? (2 different styles of music was sitting on the same couch on BET 106 & Park. That's the closest thing to that Grammy unity I can remember) You want to change the tide of where hip hop is? Dave Chappelle had music acts that were current & big like DMX and Busta Rhymes to the lesser popular to the public Talib Kweli, Mos Def, to the once popular now out of circle De La Soul. Just casually present artists to people. You don't have to make it your job, unless you own a radio station or that's your line of work. Nas & 2pac was easy access. Chappelle's show exposed me to Talib Kweli and the like. Tim Price got me curious about Hieroglyphics. This forum got me into talent that has yet to be signed, that may or may not desire to be.

I REALLY REALLY don't think this should be debated anymore. We all know where we stand. In all honesty, my stance compared to when I first joined this forum has changed and/or expanded.

[Hero1]

Hey mfuqua I agree with what you said. and I can see your elevation as a person and an emcee since when you first joined this forum.. keep it going!