Will's All-Time Presence

[rcpbball30]

Now, after reading all of the posts, I would have to revise my list to the top 10, not necesarily in order.

They are Will Smith, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Tupac, Talib Kweli, LL Cool J, Rakim, KRS-One and Run DMC.

Most of these artists are not top-sellers like Eminem or 50 Cent, which just goes to show how mis-informed and underappreciative the American people are about good hip-hop music.

[rcpbball30]

Oh yeah, I just remembered, the person who had Fred Durst on their list of top-5 MC's has no clue about music whatsoever!

[bigted]

wow! i think t's aken me a record amout of time to read this thread! I agree BigTed definately has a career in writing of some sort lined up!

I think these hip-hop magazines need peeps like us to drop knowledge for the mainstream heads. KRS-ONE and Chuck D are genious beyond albums, they write books too(Now run get "Ruminations"/It's a book that I published for the healing of this nation), "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" is the greatest album ever 'cause Chuck D is set to release a book based on the idea of creating that album, how many albums could you say that drop that much knowledge to write a book about it? Like I said before it shouldn't matter how much you say, it's what you say that counts, a lot of lines today in hip-hop are fillers, back then every line mattered it seems, Vanilla Ice was the only wack mc it seemed, now there's a whole army of wack rappers("it's like a circus now/with a bunch of clowns/and a bunch of cliques i could probably rap circles around"-FP), there'd be no need for Nick Cannon or Kanye West to pick up the mic if it was the golden age, they'd got burned. Now you could like Kanye West and Jay-Z if you choose but you can't put them among the all-time greats without knowing the history, what they're doing now was done better 15 years ago and KRS' producing of "South Bronx" is better than any of Kanye West's productions, it's all love though man. :peace:

Edited April 19, 2005 by bigted

[Mike]

i totally agree with you but i have to say that kanyes cd is really good, its true how he has no steet experiance.

[bagotrasho]

Top 5 aint enough. He is the best.

Lerkot not to sound like a Will Hater(which I'm sure some people will accuse me of)

But no way in hell is Will the best Rapper ever

[bigted]

Don't y'all think longevity should be a factor in deciding who's the greatest rapper of all time? How could somebody with one album be put in the top of the all time list? That's like sayin' Lebron James is the greatest NBA player of all time already. :hilarious: What if I made an album that sold 10 million and won 5 grammies in one year, would that put ahead of KRS and FP that've been out for 2 decades with consistancy? Hell no! Even if KRS-ONE retired or died right this minute, his music is gonna stand the test of time, wait and see. Why ain't nobody mentioning Queen Latifah she's one of the best mcs to ever step on the mic! Her lyrics are very thought provoking. How many songs does Jay-Z have to do about being a drug dealer growing up, at least Will ain't repetative, each of his albums have different themes, Jay-Z reminds of Eminem, he says the same s*** over and over, I heard it before dog, I wanna hear something different. And since this thread started on performance none of these current pop rappers could outperform JJFP in a live show, period, Jay-Z' a mediocre performer, no energy at all, even James Brown still has more energy than Jay-Z does.

[MaxFly]

wow! i think t's aken me a record amout of time to read this thread! I agree BigTed definately has a career in writing of some sort lined up!

I think these hip-hop magazines need peeps like us to drop knowledge for the mainstream heads. KRS-ONE and Chuck D are genious beyond albums, they write books too(Now run get "Ruminations"/It's a book that I published for the healing of this nation), "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" is the greatest album ever 'cause Chuck D is set to release a book based on the idea of creating that album, how many albums could you say that drop that much knowledge to write a book about it? Like I said before it shouldn't matter how much you say, it's what you say that counts, a lot of lines today in hip-hop are fillers, back then every line mattered it seems, Vanilla Ice was the only wack mc it seemed, now there's a whole army of wack rappers("it's like a circus now/with a bunch of clowns/and a bunch of cliques i could probably rap circles around"-FP), there'd be no need for Nick Cannon or Kanye West to pick up the mic if it was the golden age, they'd got burned. Now you could like Kanye West and Jay-Z if you choose but you can't put them among the all-time greats without knowing the history, what they're doing now was done better 15 years ago and KRS' producing of "South Bronx" is better than any of Kanye West's productions, it's all love though man. :peace:

You may not have respect for Kanye West, and even I think he's overrated (his career is still very young), yet it's extremely disrespectful to put his name in the same sentence with Nick Cannon. I'm certainly not going to go around extolling Kanye West until he's really proven himself, but I also won't put him down until he's shown what he's really about. He's shown promise, that's all we can say at this point. He still has a long way to go, and he's not in the top 10 of anything yet. He certainly doesn't have anything on Will, LL, KRS-One or Rakim... I can keep going... but lets not put him down excessively... and mentioning his name anywhere near a sentence containing Nick Cannon's name is the definition of excessive.

Edited April 19, 2005 by MaxFly

[Frenetic]

Don't y'all think longevity should be a factor in deciding who's the greatest rapper of all time? How could somebody with one album be put in the top of the all time list? That's like sayin' Lebron James is the greatest NBA player of all time already. :hilarious: What if I made an album that sold 10 million and won 5 grammies in one year, would that put ahead of KRS and FP that've been out for 2 decades with consistancy? Hell no! Even if KRS-ONE retired or died right this minute, his music is gonna stand the test of time, wait and see. Why ain't nobody mentioning Queen Latifah she's one of the best mcs to ever step on the mic! Her lyrics are very thought provoking. How many songs does Jay-Z have to do about being a drug dealer growing up, at least Will ain't repetative, each of his albums have different themes, Jay-Z reminds of Eminem, he says the same s*** over and over, I heard it before dog, I wanna hear something different. And since this thread started on performance none of these current pop rappers could outperform JJFP in a live show, period, Jay-Z' a mediocre performer, no energy at all, even James Brown still has more energy than Jay-Z does.

I didn't know which of your essays to qoute so I just picked one for my reply =)

The thing with KRS is that he's fallen off. He did set standards, no arguing with that. But now, he can't anymore. Cuz cats is getting better. His flow is still sick and his lyrics no doubt good. But I can right now, drop 2 songs of COllege Dropout that is better then anything he's done. All Falls Down: "Shw couldn't afford a car, so she named her daugher alexis (a lexus)." That's like one of the best punchline's since big l started the punchline era for real. not only is it a winderful punchline but meaningful. So is the rest of the song. every single bar of that song is strait fiya. and measuring with todays standards, and the things krs drops now... it's better then krs newer things.

And who said you gotta be a battle mc to be certified as a good rapper? that's like saying fp gotta kill to get street cred. in that case eminem should be one of the best rappers ever done it cuz (no i aint' talking about 8 mile) he was a world champion a couple of times long before he blew up.

I probably gonna stop arguing about the jigga thing... I took notice that you're a NAS fan... discussions between nas and jay-z fans could probably go on forever.

[J-o-e]

Whatever ya'll say my top 5 are

1. 2pac

2. Jay Z

3. Kayne West

4. Biggie

5. Will Smith

[bigted]

I have some respect for Kanye West 'cause he's giving effort to do something different than any other rapper, but he came in the game as a producer, get that through your head, FP got signed as a rapper at a time where it was harder to get signed, and the reason why I mention Nick Cannon is 'cause he came in the game as a comedian not a rapper either, although I have some respect for him 'cause he's trying to bring the comedy back, if you don't get signed as a rapper, stick to whatever else you do, come on now the game's so wack right now even Shaq could make an album. :kekeke: "All Falls Down" and "Jesus Walks" are weak efforts to top the Blastmaster, you're crazy! His "Spirtual Minded" album is more conscious and thought provoking than "College Dropout" and that wasn't even KRS best album, Kanye West ain't changin' s*** though either, he's overrated big time, Nas is the best rapper now, Kanye bit his style from Common, who's put more dues in this game to be on the sidelines when Kanye West blows up.

[MaxFly]

there'd be no need for Nick Cannon or Kanye West to pick up the mic if it was the golden age, they'd got burned

I'll repeat... I think Kanye is a bit overrated as well... However, though you may not have been trying to associate the two directly, lol, you put his name in the same sentence with Nick Cannon hommie. Nick Cannon. :hilarious:

If you want to say Kanye wouldn't be able to hang with the originators, that's fine, I'll agree with you... but drawing any correlation between Kanye West and Nick Cannon is going overboard.

It's like Chuck D.'s recent statement about Vanilla Ice and the Fresh Prince... I understood where he was coming from, but those names need to be kept far from eachother as to avoid association.

[bigted]

Nick Cannon ain't that wack as you think he is, I think he's better than Ying Yang Twins and 50 Cent, those cats are so annoying, I wouldn't mind if Nick Cannon got more airplay than them, but he's a FP wannabe. The only young rapper at this point that has a chance to have a successful career is Bow Wow, he's comin' of age now, "My Baby" was a pretty deep song, he's starting to get away from that teeny bop rap now. Big L started the punchline level? Damn you must be young! FP, Rakim, LL, KRS, and other legends have been spitting superb punchlines for only 20 years now, today's rappers use their lines! :poke: Kanye West can't even beat Jin The MC in a freestyle battle(did you watch 106&Park 2 years ago? Incredible punchlines!) let alone FP.

Anyway this is my last essay on this topic, but I gotta say this now, here's a whole bunch of all-time rappers that're better than today's pop rappers, besides the others I mentioned, don't forget about:

Slick Rick, NWA, Doug E. Fresh, MC Lyte, Gangstarr, Beastie Boys, Kool G Rap, Too Short, Dana Dane, Poor Righteous Teachers, De La Soul, Arrested Development, Tribe Called Quest, EPMD, Wu-Tang Clan, Leaders Of The New School, Pete Rock and CL Smooth, Naughty By Nature, Snoop Dogg, Scarface, Outkast, Warren G, Whoodini, Hieroglyphics, Salt-N-Pepa, Brand Nubian, Afrika Bambataa and The Zulu Nation, Das Efx, Monie Love, Heavy D, Fugees, Redman, Masta Ace, The Roots, Big Pun, DMX, and Fat Joe(then after you could probably mention Common, Mos Def, and Talib Kweli)

If you heard all these artists I don't think Jay-Z and Kanye West would blow you away! :chuks:

Edited April 19, 2005 by bigted

[MaxFly]

I too would much rather see Nick Cannon get more play than 50, Mike Jones, the Ying Yang Twins... man, I would rather see dude from B2K...

But on the real, "Nick Cannon or Kanye West." Take it back, take it back... :poke:

Incidentally, if anyone wants to see those jin videos, they can be provided...

You wanna say I'm Chinese son, here's a reminder

Check your Tims, they probably say "Made In China"

[MaxFly]

And I'm not saying Nick Cannon is wack... he's a gigolo with lots of dough... I have that music video, I won't lie... :kekeke:

"Go on wit Nick then. Go on! Niiicckk!"

[Frenetic]

I have some respect for Kanye West 'cause he's giving effort to do something different than any other rapper, but he came in the game as a producer, get that through your head, FP got signed as a rapper at a time where it was harder to get signed, and the reason why I mention Nick Cannon is 'cause he came in the game as a comedian not a rapper either, although I have some respect for him 'cause he's trying to bring the comedy back, if you don't get signed as a rapper, stick to whatever else you do, come on now the game's so wack right now even Shaq could make an album. :kekeke: "All Falls Down" and "Jesus Walks" are weak efforts to top the Blastmaster, you're crazy! His "Spirtual Minded" album is more conscious and thought provoking than "College Dropout" and that wasn't even KRS best album, Kanye West ain't changin' s*** though either, he's overrated big time, Nas is the best rapper now, Kanye bit his style from Common, who's put more dues in this game to be on the sidelines when Kanye West blows up.

I don't give a **** if KRS album was more provoking then Kanyes. The album still isn't better then TCD. Netiher beats, rhymes or style is better.

Kanye have his own style. Come on, what resemblence do you find between him and common? Common has an entirely different flow and rhymestyle. Kanye has more of an playful, singing flow. Common has a more strait up hiphopflow even though he has his thing with articulating every word, which makes me think of the last poet & spoken word.

and NO NO NO ... kanye got signed as a producer. BUT then he got in as a rapper too, HE HAS ALWAYS rapped. from the days when he was a scholar of d-dot. It just didn't get thorught and develop until he got a deal as a rapper to at roc-a-fella. You can't say people should stick to what they started as.. that's just pathetic, listen to yourself. If someones good at something, then they should go on with their dream. if i got it right.. Will was a dj at first. Will then became a rapper AND actor. did he do wrong? NO, cuz he can both act and rap.

All Falls Down is weak? Jesus Walks? Homie get ya **** strait. Those are some of the best songs ever written since we went into a new millenium. COmmon is one of the pioneers of the style he represents yes, so ain't it good he gets that throught and gets airplay with the new cd with help from kanye? Or should he just stay under the publics eye, something he would if the album wouldn't been produced by kanye.

If we're talking overrated, then what the hell is nas? Illmatic is dope, Then it's all pure 100% **** until street disciple which is an okey album, but could have been really dope if it was one cd instead. Could have been a new classic or atleast an album you'd remember. Same with the blueprint 2 which had way to much songs.

Without kanye there wouldn't be no Talib fame, no common - Be, no mos def shine, no jay-z - the blueprint, no jay-z the black album, no COLLEGE DROPUT whoch was an REALLY IMPORTANT album in a time where everything is 50 cent and g-unit,