Will's All-Time Presence

[KevTastic]

And so for the judges keeping count... round 1 goes to KevTastic with a vicious uppercut and a giggle for good measure. :kekeke:

I like your style :wiggle:

[bigted]

the platinium chart says:

1. 2pac

2. biggie

3. dr. dre

4. jay-z

5. nas\snoop

You must be lookin' at the wrong chart, Will sold 30 million albums that's more than any of them(except 2Pac, but people flocked to buy his album after his death) MC Hammer's one album "Hammer Don't Hurt 'Em" sold more than Nas' entire career(MC Hammer could outperform Nas but Nas could outspit MC Hammer, 2 different type of talents, both great at what they do, as much as I like them, I wouldn't put them in the top 10 all time mcs realistically 'cause there was a lot of great mcs that came out from the late '80s to mid-90s, it's hard to do a list 'cause everyone had their own styles), and where's LL, he's sold 20 million in his career, but talent doesn't measure talent, KRS-ONE, Rakim, and Chuck D deserve to be in the top 5 with LL and JJFP even though their sales are lower than most of today's pop rappers, they still spit knowledge, but they just don't get marketed well, they choose to do it that way and their few fans like me respect them.

Edited April 18, 2005 by bigted

[Frenetic]

SKILLS:

1. Jay-Z

2. Common

3. Talib Kweli

4. Biggie

5. 2pac

6. Nas

7. Rakim

8. Kanye West

9. q-tip

10. Mos Def

11. Will Smith

Overall & Me liking:

1. Jay-Z

2. Kanye West

3.Talib Kweli

4. Common

5. Will Smith

[Frenetic]

And now if we is dissin jay-z for seelin out.. then what the hell was Big Willie Style?

"i dumbed down for my audience to make a couple of dollars" Moment Of clarity 2003

"but will if u come to high, that'll alienate people" partystarter 2005.

Both are even saying that it was necessary for them to survive in the industry.

Then they dropped their best (or in jay-z's case: one of the best) solo albums.

The Black Album is 100% quality. It's raw, pure, good.

Lost And found is the same.

Edited April 18, 2005 by Frenetic

[Bracesup]

Most talented rappers in my opinion are

1.2Pac

2.Jamie Madrox (Twiztid)

3.Fresh Prince

4.Fred Durst

5.Violent J/Shaggy 2 Dope (ICP)

[bigted]

SKILLS:

1. Jay-Z

2. Common

3. Talib Kweli

4. Biggie

5. 2pac

6. Nas

7. Rakim

8. Kanye West

9. q-tip

10. Mos Def

11. Will Smith

Overall & Me liking:

1. Jay-Z

2. Kanye West

3.Talib Kweli

4. Common

5. Will Smith

Yo man you think Jay-Z, Common,Talib Kweli, Biggie, 2pac, and Nas all have more skills than Rakim, you're crazy! Rakim inspired all these cats to have the structure they have, they all bit their styles from Rakim and "Paid In Full" which is arguably the greatest album ever made, they got nothin' on him. Kanye West has more skills than Will? How old are you man? Kanye West ain't a rapper, Teddy Riley even has more rhymin' skills than Kanye West. "Big Willie Style" was not a sell-out album, that was still hip-hop, just the singles were pop rap songs, he wasn't rappin' about being in the streets, that's what would be sellin' out 'cause he don't live in the streets, and it featured one of the deepest songs he ever made "Just The Two Of Us", if you don't think so then you might as well say Fugees and Busta Rhymes sold out 'cause their music was upbeat too at the time, Jay-Z flip-flops more than Will ever did in his career, he says he's street one minute, then he's rappin' about how rich he is, then he says he's street again, why don't Jay-Z just be real and not talk about the streets anymore 'cause he's now a rich man, come on now, what does Will have to do? Start talkin' about bustin' guns, slingin' crack, geting high, and start sellin' alcohol to get hip-hop credability? :confused3: Now if we talk about skills we shouldn't forget to mention Kool Moe Dee, Melle Mel, Kurtis Blow, Grandmaster Caz, Busy Bee, and the many other pioneers of hip-hop, they shouldn't be buried to the bottom of the list just 'cause they never sold much, they even paved the way for Will and KRS to get some recognition, to mention Kanye West, Jay-Z, Mos Def, Biggie, Common, or even Talib Kweli before them is a disgrace, the real pioneers should not be forgotten even though they didn't have the longevity that Will has.

Edited April 18, 2005 by bigted

[bigted]

Remember this Keith B. Real Skit, this explains it all

-Now Will let me ask you something do you think that you make quote unquote real rap music cause I ain't never seen no Wu dancing wit no singing alien keep it real

-Well brother I like to have a good time have fun with the music that I make you know let people have fun

It wasn't sellin' out doing this album 'cause hip-hop needed somethin' fun after hearing about Pac and Biggie being murdered.

"Don't Say Nothin'' is a song on that album he addresses to haters:

Don't Say Nothin'

Yo (let's talk about)

When I released my first single back in like '86

People was like oh you know that's popcorn and you know they weak

You know then I mess around I go world trade on them

Bangin out them multi-plats they still got negativity to bring

My thing is you can't say nothing nice don't say nothing

Take your place allow me to flex a taste

As my accomplishments bring up my comp like mase

Face me the star of stage and TV

My face be seen in almost every country

Grammy winner soon to be oscar nominee

Who he that's dressed jiggy straight from West Philly

Thought I was wack cause I wanted to act

Now every brother and his mother that rap be trying to do that

The ill kid

Hundred million dollar bill kid

The one you love to chill with come on keep it real kid

Don't try to act like this summer at the greek

You won't be bumpin the big Willie in your jeep

I know y'all still feel me

Really don't act silly

Thought I feel off just becuase I left Philly

Took a break from the rap thing went on hiatus

I picked up the art of acting and multiplied papers

I chilled on silk sofas chatting with Oprah

She asked me if it's true that me and Jeff broke up (hell naa)

While y'all kids busy playing drug pimp and playa

I was at my crib in Barbados chillin with Jada to date her

Vertex is me the magnanimous

Got you saying damn I've always been a fan of his

Y'all know how it is oh wait hold up y'all don't

Look here y'all don't say nothing then I won't

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Man I love being me ready to rock ya block

With some more hot top notch ___ for you to cop

No more mr. nice guy

My whole life I've been smiling when I felt like whiling

Jealousy swinging on me made his attack

(He soft he wack man that ain't real rap)

You believe that

It hurt me at first but it's cool

Took the insults fed em to my ego used it for fuel

Now everywhere I turn a dead end

Hundred women coming at me waving pads and pens

And they be screaming out

(Oh my lord)

Did you see it's that

(Brother from ID4)

Now can I please get

(A picture and your signature)

Sure you can miss

(Oh my god my girlfriends they ain't gonna believe this)

Worldwide wait nah hold up galactic

Hear my name don't nothing change but the accent

Bangkok to Madagascar they wanna see me

Princepe in Spain Japan I'm kota ishe

I like my steaks thick and my jets private

And my son to ride in the cockpit

I know hes only four taking lessons from the pilot

While I'm on my cell with my broker getting stock tips

Find a magazine and I read the hottest gossip

Man who'd a thought my life would be such an interesting topic

Well y'all know how it is wait hold up y'all don't

Well look here y'all don't say nothing than I won't

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Just don't say nothing (don't say nothin)

Go ahead adjust the balance and the bass in your speakers

Make sure my voice sounding crisp in your tweeters

I'm about to show you how a man like me works

My shorty get ice five carrots and nothing cheaper

Four five chromed out former two seaters

Fifty inch sony to watch Siskel and Ebert

Cause I'm about to get two thumbs ten toes one knee and probably a couple

Of elbows

Cause yo I'm the man and the whole world knows

Rock film festivals and rap shows

All the critics jealous people and back-stabbers

My so called friends who been nothing but actors

You're way of character but now who's the bomb

It's Will from west Phil just slightly transformed

Y'all know what it is

Ah damn that's right y'all don't

But look here y'all don't say nothing then trust me I won't

Edited April 18, 2005 by bigted

[bigted]

People say that he was sellin' out on this album 'cause he was rappin' about money, jewlery, and a lot of fancy things on here but he's only been making millions of dollars for 12 years at that time, I'd say that he has more right to talk about it than any of the other pop rappers just comin' out at that time, he's paid his due in this game, it's not like it was his 1st album like some ignorant peeps might think, even Jay-Z talked about how much money he had on "Reasonable Doubt" and that was his 1st album is the argument I could give you, but I ain't gonna front though, that was a classic album just like "Big Willie Style" was, nobody said hip-hop had to sound a certain way, hip-hop is about representin' you and your life, so when Will talks about how much money he has it ain't a lie 'cause he's rich as hell, but when Jay-Z still talks about how he's runnin' the streets now that's a lie 'cause I'm closer to the streets than he is now.

Now my favorite mcs in hip-hop are JJFP(that's why I post here so much), LL Cool J, KRS-ONE, Nas, and Public Enemy, I know everyone ain't gonna agree with me but I think that they represent the hip-hop culture well, but I couldn't rank them ahead of Rakim(except KRS-ONE) realistically, I think KRS-ONE is the greatest mc to touch the mic realistically, but if I had to vote who the best mc is of all time, I'd vote for Will 'cause he's my favorite, I know the difference between opinion and fact pretty well, but I think it's a safe fact that my favorites should be considered on everyone's lists of all-time greats. Sorry for such a long ass post but I just wanted to set things straight here 'cause I don't like my favorite rapper being called a sell-out.

[Lerkot]

wow ted thats knowledge

you should write a book or something, really

[WesSyde]

hey that's alright Ted, cuz different people have different taste. u obviously have old skool taste which is why u like KRS-One, PE, Rakim, etc. Frenetic obviously likes the new cats in the game and doesnt listen 2 that much ol skool which is why he likes Jay-Z and Kanye

[Frenetic]

People say that he was sellin' out on this album 'cause he was rappin' about money, jewlery, and a lot of fancy things on here but he's only been making millions of dollars for 12 years at that time, I'd say that he has more right to talk about it than any of the other pop rappers just comin' out at that time, he's paid his due in this game, it's not like it was his 1st album like some ignorant peeps might think, even Jay-Z talked about how much money he had on "Reasonable Doubt" and that was his 1st album is the argument I could give you, but I ain't gonna front though, that was a classic album just like "Big Willie Style" was, nobody said hip-hop had to sound a certain way, hip-hop is about representin' you and your life, so when Will talks about how much money he has it ain't a lie 'cause he's rich as hell, but when Jay-Z still talks about how he's runnin' the streets now that's a lie 'cause I'm closer to the streets than he is now.

Now my favorite mcs in hip-hop are JJFP(that's why I post here so much), LL Cool J, KRS-ONE, Nas, and Public Enemy, I know everyone ain't gonna agree with me but I think that they represent the hip-hop culture well, but I couldn't rank them ahead of Rakim(except KRS-ONE) realistically, I think KRS-ONE is the greatest mc to touch the mic realistically, but if I had to vote who the best mc is of all time, I'd vote for Will 'cause he's my favorite, I know the difference between opinion and fact pretty well, but I think it's a safe fact that my favorites should be considered on everyone's lists of all-time greats. Sorry for such a long ass post but I just wanted to set things straight here 'cause I don't like my favorite rapper being called a sell-out.

I like these discussions, cause i really respect the old school cats, without them we wouldn't have alot of talented rappers today.

Without run dmc, no will smith

without rakim, no nas. etc.

The thing is that KRS-One is a really dope emcee. BUT, he was doper when he was a pioneer. he ain't anymore. Todays pioneers ARE kanye west and jay-z. THEY ARE, accept that. Kanye changed the whole sound of hiphop, jay-z made people continue to rap like biggie and spit knowledge.

And it doesn't mattwr how much the old schol cats inspried the new ones to rap. Cuz some day the scholars are goint to get better then the teachers. I haven't given up on Rakim, cuz i heard he's gotta new album coming out soon. These lists change. For 4 years ago i would definetly have put KRS, Ice Cube & PublicEnemy on my list. BUT THE CAN't MATCH THE NEW EMCEES.

Lyrically, talking about syllables, flow on syllables, words and meaning. Kanye IS now better then KRS. TalibKweli i would go as far as say that he may be the most skilled lyrically. You even heard Get By? Those lyrics are probably the best ever, syllable, meaning and passion.

Jay-Z's flow is ridicolous, he is the best on the planet on flowing. Right next to him on that is Rakim, KRS and Common.

---

I never called will a sell out, I said that if people call jay-z a sell out then they should do the same to will. Then i said that they've both said that they have dumbed down. in order to success in the business.

Jay-z never said i controlled the streets after the in my lifetime albums. And what's wrong, with a dude telling his life story? If will is talking about loretta or the haters, then jay-z can talk about how he sold crack. zhe did as a way to survive, he was rich before he let reasonable doubt out, cuz Roc-a-fella is built on 40% drug money. You just don't start a label and put RnB's queen Mary on your first single without having the money.

So if u gat money then u can't talk about your past? That just sounds stupid.. We choose what we rap about.

And boy, I know the lyrics for don't say nothing, without needing to read it. I've been down with jjfp since as long as i can remember, i grew up listening to it.

-----

If we is gonna idolize the old cats for all time, then who will bring hiphop further? It IS Talib now, IT IS COMMON, It IS Kanye.

[Bracesup]

And the award for the longest post in the history of forum postings goes to..................... BIGTED!!!!!!! :beer: :afro: :angel: :werd: :rosik: :peace:

Please come to my house to collect your award.

[bigted]

Kanye West is just a good producer though, not an mc, did he win battles on the street like FP did? No, 'cause he was just a producer. Hip-hop ain't as great now as it was 15 years ago, do you think Kanye would stand a chance if he came out in the late '80s? To compare "College Dropout" to "Criminal Minded" is ignorant, I'm not just ol' school bias when I say that, I like some stuff out now but a lot of it I find ignorant, a lot of underground cats who've been rappin' for years would murder Kanye West too, I missed the great years of hip-hop by the time I got into it, he can't beat KRS-ONE in a lyrical battle, have you heard KRS' recent albums? He's still droppin' knowledge on mcs, but it's on an underground level, if he got the promotion he deserves, mainstream peeps would easily see that his rhymes are more intelligent than Kanye West and every rapper in the industry including Nas, who I think is the best out today besides FP and LL on a mainstream level. I got a couple of Talib Kweli's albums, they're hot, he's definately a great mc, I like him more than Jay-Z and Kanye West 'cause he keeps his lyrics positive and is a great lyrical cat, but he'd even lose to KRS-ONE. KRS-ONE was, is, and will be a pioneer in hip-hop for years to come until he hangs up the mic. Yeah I should write a book from these posts I made. :kekeke:

[FreshPrincess]

wow! i think t's aken me a record amout of time to read this thread! I agree BigTed definately has a career in writing of some sort lined up!

[bigted]

Check out the lyrics for KRS' 2003 "It's All A Struggle" song, these are real hip-hop lyrics, better than "Jesus Walks":

"[Chorus: KRS] + (guest)

It's all a struggle (tryin to make it day to day)

It's all a struggle (from my hood to around your way)

It's all a struggle (single parents all by theyself)

It's all a struggle (diseases decreasin your health)

It's all a struggle (fiends swearin that's they last puff)

It's all a struggle (hustler tryin to avoid handcuffs)

(No matter what you do, who you are or where you from)

(Rich poor black white, at the end of the day)

[Verse One: KRS-One]

It's all a struggle - and most people's struggles are doubled

You ain't the only one with a challenge facin some trouble

Look at the woman chewed up by the dog with no muzzle

Or the workers that got trapped underground in that tunnel

Some kids are playin in pools, others in puddles

When they listen to the news the propoganda is subtle

But it's time for you to know that the cryin got to go

Release the guilt that you built and let it flow

Slow and low, that is the tempo

Move slow and on the low, this you gotta know

You don't get the muscles without the hard struggles

You ain't the only one out here tryin to get dough

From the hustler to the preacher to the government leaders

From the airline pilot to the chef to the teachers

We linked in the same huddle, in the same tussle'n'bustle

Cause at the end of the day, it's all a struggle

[Chorus]

[Verse Two: KRS-One]

It's all a struggle - but don't let the challenges bug you

Or the government drug you, or the thieves in the street

beat and mug you - build your tunnel under the rubble

Come up on the other side eye to eye with the trouble

Look at the Twin Towers crumble

Look at the religious leadership stumble, everybody struggles

But not everybody comes through nifty, it's fifty/fifty

The city itself will outrun you quickly

Whether you be healthy or sickly

Whether you be wealthy or thrifty, ugly or pretty

Everybody's tryin to get 50's and 100's

I taught this at UCLA just off Sunset

Now run get "Ruminations"

It's a book that I published for the healing of this nation

In just a few chapters we run through, some possible solutions

Cause at the end of the day

[Chorus]

[KRS-One]

It's all a struggle"

Edited April 18, 2005 by bigted