Kanye West causes controversy on NBC

[mfuqua23]

"Not by age, but by knowledge is wisdom acquired." - Remember that ted. Just because someone has lived on this earth for a longer time than another, doesn't mean they necessarily know more. Sure they had plenty of opportunities, but maybe they didn't use them. I'm not saying your wrong for what you said. At least in this case, but don't assume such a thing.

Edited September 5, 2005 by mfuqua23

[Schnazz]

I'll read and reply tomorrow as i gotta go to sleep.

←

Crack hit the streets in 1984...

I will call you out and put you on blast when you post foolishness of inaccurate information. Do your research before you post if you want to remain credible, cause I have no problem correcting you if you are wrong...

←

Crack cocain is recognized as becoming a huge problem (epidemic) in 84 (or possibly 85), but it hit the streets much earlier, in the late 70's.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, so I don't really put much thought into if Bush Sr. or Reagen or whomever funded/put out crack with a purpose. But I do know that many people believe it. People also believe (including Will Smith, at one point, in reference to Ted bringing him up earlier) that the government introduced AIDS to attack the black population.

There isn't any evidence, that I'm aware of, of crack or aids or whatever coming from the government. But it's not out of the realm of possability (which you seem to be implying). The US government does do some very bad things, as well as some officials in the government. The CIA, or at least some members, did view the Black Panthers as a major threat to the US. As I'm sure you know, Bush Sr. was CIA director from 76-77, rougly the same time that crack began circulation in the US. So maybe, maybe Bush Sr. had something to do with it. I don't really know, I don't think the public ever will know, but it's not all that crazy that it could have happened.

Edit:

I originally started this post with a snide comment, which I just removed. Discussions are interesting and constructive, but snide comments are neither. My bad. My point is that you're being the "fact" police, but people do make mistakes, and not all facts are known. So there's a lot of grey area involved.

Edited September 5, 2005 by Schnazz

[bigted]

Of course you're right fuq but James Brown is one of the realest brothers ever, he's the one that motivated the idea of hip-hop to bring people together, his music reflects the thoughts of hip-hop even though he sings not raps, it's music from the soul and he gets out his rage in "Say It Loud"(I'm Black And I'm Proud) which was motivated from the civil rights movement so I take his word for it, Afrika Bambataa was motivated by James Brown's songs and started hip-hop in the parks of the Bronx for everybody to enjoy! Hip-hop is about peace, love, and unity, we're not thugs like the media potrays us, even Jada and Will say that Pac was potrayed wrong in the media 'cause he was a good guy at heart that we lost too soon, it was just the world problems that made him mad. btw, here's I rhyme I wrote today I'll post it here in case you don't see it in "Numero Uno", I had to get my frustration out, I think I'm gonna lay back and watch a movie for a while to get my mind off the problems off the world, I wish I had some money so I could give:

"I give you a call, I wanna work

I've got the balls to call you a jerk

If you ignore the message of my respectful word, the least you could do is reply with an answer, And you wonder why I ain't gonna kiss Uncle Sam and start smokin' herb

You wanna get me high so I could start to studder and a ****ed up mentality so I won't remember

What do you mean I didn't qualify, here's a copy of my diploma sir

How could I not be what you'd like to hire?

Maybe it's 'cause the ones on your staff don't have the heritage from what I was born

Yeah I get it, I lay out my hand for you and that's how you treat me?

My plan was for us to be cool but now you wanna beat me?

How dare you go out there and disrespect me

You have no care for the ingredients I put into this recipe

I put a lot of sweat and tears, this is more than just a thought

This isn't about how much I got either from what I bought

This is about us comin' together before our relationship gets lost

I guess you'll only care about the emotion I poured when you come off soft

You'd still wanna knock me out even if I decide to give you the keys of my house

We could share it, but then you start comparisons, about how I won't ever win

Just 'cause of the color of my skin, you wanna take advantage of my predicament

You would rather leave me dying, I want us to be a unity surviving

Why can't you even start realising that we need to start trying

To come together and spend some time and sign this contract dotted line

I ain't trying to be doing crimes I wanna make a living through this rhyme

And touch some spirits that're feelin' declined

So no matter what you tell me I'm keepin' my pride

Even if you never wanna be on my side "

[MaxFly]

Well MaxFly if you don't believe that Reagan and Bush helped bring crack on the streets then you must think all rappers are liars then, even Will would tell you that if you talked to him 'cause he stands behind what Public Enemy and KRS-ONE in their songs, it ain't fiction, the black people didn't make them, they get smuggled here, damn I thought you go to Harvard?!  Get your facts straight homie, the media are liars, you can't believe everything they say on the news, "Don't Believe The Hype"! btw, I talked about this a couple months ago, BET bans certain rappers from getting airplay, most of them are conscious rappers so I guess they don't want our message on the air, hmm...? I'd be shocked if "Tell Me Why" gets more airplay than "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" got but truthfully it deserves to be Will's biggest hit ever. obviously there's some Uncle Toms working there, Rob Johnson could kiss my ass, here's the list:

"The following artists are banned from airplay(meaning all their NEW videos):

Kool G. Rap

Craig G

MC Lyte

Buckshot

Kool Keith

A Tribe Called Quest

A+

Jeru

The Liks

The Artifacts

AZ

Bad Seed

Bahamadia

Da Brat

Goodie Mob

Bone Thugs N Harmony

Black Moon

Methodman

E-40

Canibus

Afu Ra

Cappadonna

Channel Live

Cocoa Brovaz

Freddie Foxxx

GZA

El-P

D.O.C.

Diamond D

dead prez

De La Soul

MF Doom

Camp Lo

Geto Boys

Brand Nubian

Boot Camp Clik

KRS One

Black Sheep

Raekwon

4th Avenue Jones

Heather B

Jayo Felony

Killah Priest

Lil Cease

McGruff

Mic Geronimo

Monie Love

Mos Def

Ice Cube

Hieroglyphics

Inspectah Deck

Jean Grae

Nate Dogg

O.C.

Onyx "

←

So because rappers say it, it must be true...

Incidentally, Ted, mentioning Harvard is not in your best interst hommie. You don't want to take the conversation down that road...

And don't ever tell me to get my facts striaght. My facts are stright. They are on point. You still think that Bill O'Reilly raped someone, somewhere... You sound ridiculous...

[bigted]

Aight Max I could understand I guess nobody ever made fun of you for the way you look or anything? I understand, it's not your fault, you don't know what it feels like to have a weight on your back when people constantly put you down for what you look like no matter how much good things you do, btw I'm watching O'Reilly's show right now and he just dissed Kanye West and said rappers have no credibility because of what Kanye West said, he needs to spend some time in a black man's shoes and he'd understand why we feel this way, he acts like we talk about the streetlife for fun but it's our reality, he wants us to relate to him but why can't he relate to us? We all have different backgrounds but we're all human, the public gotta understand that hip-hop's voice must be heard, no matter how conservative you are, you gotta hear us black people, we're minorities but our thoughts count, if your ancestors faced 200 years of racism, you'd understand homie and btw it don't matter what college you go to or how much high grades you get and you could still be ignorant, knowledge goes beyond the classroom, you have to take what you learned out to the world!

"Changes" by 2Pac reflects how I feel about things right now, my father just told me the same thing that I'm feeling, if we come back here 200 years from now there still will be racism, we just can't seem to find common ground:

Come on come on

I see no changes wake up in the morning and I ask myself

is life worth living should I blast myself?

I'm tired of bein' poor & even worse I'm black

my stomach hurts so I'm lookin' for a purse to snatch

Cops give a damn about a negro

pull the trigger kill a nigga he's a hero

Give the crack to the kids who the hell cares

one less hungry mouth on the welfare

First ship 'em dope & let 'em deal the brothers

give 'em guns step back watch 'em kill each other

It's time to fight back that's what Huey said

2 shots in the dark now Huey's dead

I got love for my brother but we can never go nowhere

unless we share with each other

We gotta start makin' changes

learn to see me as a brother instead of 2 distant strangers

and that's how it's supposed to be

How can the Devil take a brother if he's close to me?

I'd love to go back to when we played as kids

but things changed, and that's the way it is

Bridge w/ changing ad libs

Come on come on

That's just the way it is

Things'll never be the same

That's just the way it is

aww yeah

Repeat

-2-

I see no changes all I see is racist faces

misplaced hate makes disgrace to races

We under I wonder what it takes to make this

one better place, let's erase the wasted

Take the evil out the people they'll be acting right

'cause both black and white is smokin' crack tonight

and only time we chill is when we kill each other

it takes skill to be real, time to heal each other

And although it seems heaven sent

We ain't ready, to see a black President, uhh

It ain't a secret don't conceal the fact

the penitentiary's packed, and it's filled with blacks

But some things will never change

try to show another way but you stayin' in the dope game

Now tell me what's a mother to do

bein' real don't appeal to the brother in you

You gotta operate the easy way

"I made a G today" But you made it in a sleazy way

sellin' crack to the kid. " I gotta get paid,"

Well hey, well that's the way it is

Bridge

Talking:

We gotta make a change...

It's time for us as a people to start makin' some changes.

Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live

and let's change the way we treat each other.

You see the old way wasn't working so it's on us to do

what we gotta do, to survive.

-3-

And still I see no changes can't a brother get a little peace

It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East

Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs

so the police can bother me

And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do

But now I'm back with the blacks givin' it back to you

Don't let 'em jack you up, back you up,

crack you up and pimp slap you up

You gotta learn to hold ya own

they get jealous when they see ya with ya mobile phone

But tell the cops they can't touch this

I don't trust this when they try to rush I bust this

That's the sound of my tool you say it ain't cool

my mama didn't raise no fool

And as long as I stay black I gotta stay strapped

& I never get to lay back

'Cause I always got to worry 'bout the pay backs

some buck that I roughed up way back

comin' back after all these years

rat-a-tat-tat-tat-tat that's the way it is uhh

Edited September 6, 2005 by bigted

[WesSyde]

Well MaxFly if you don't believe that Reagan and Bush helped bring crack on the streets then you must think all rappers are liars then, even Will would tell you that if you talked to him 'cause he stands behind what Public Enemy and KRS-ONE in their songs, it ain't fiction, the black people didn't make them, they get smuggled here, damn I thought you go to Harvard?!  Get your facts straight homie, the media are liars, you can't believe everything they say on the news, "Don't Believe The Hype"! btw, I talked about this a couple months ago, BET bans certain rappers from getting airplay, most of them are conscious rappers so I guess they don't want our message on the air, hmm...? I'd be shocked if "Tell Me Why" gets more airplay than "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" got but truthfully it deserves to be Will's biggest hit ever. obviously there's some Uncle Toms working there, Rob Johnson could kiss my ass, here's the list:

"The following artists are banned from airplay(meaning all their NEW videos):

Kool G. Rap

Craig G

MC Lyte

Buckshot

Kool Keith

A Tribe Called Quest

A+

Jeru

The Liks

The Artifacts

AZ

Bad Seed

Bahamadia

Da Brat

Goodie Mob

Bone Thugs N Harmony

Black Moon

Methodman

E-40

Canibus

Afu Ra

Cappadonna

Channel Live

Cocoa Brovaz

Freddie Foxxx

GZA

El-P

D.O.C.

Diamond D

dead prez

De La Soul

MF Doom

Camp Lo

Geto Boys

Brand Nubian

Boot Camp Clik

KRS One

Black Sheep

Raekwon

4th Avenue Jones

Heather B

Jayo Felony

Killah Priest

Lil Cease

McGruff

Mic Geronimo

Monie Love

Mos Def

Ice Cube

Hieroglyphics

Inspectah Deck

Jean Grae

Nate Dogg

O.C.

Onyx "

←

Ted, i think Max's point was that in '84 Bush Sr. wasn't president, he was vice President. Regan was president so if you're going to blame the president, blame him.

also, do u know how updated that list is? I've seen some of those rappers on there like a year or two ago.

[bigted]

Well like Chris Rock said in CB4: "White rock stars could bite the heads of a chicken and everything's fine but you're arresting me for rapping about the sweat on my balls?" :lolsign: It's true, white rock stars could make meaningless songs and then get lil' criticism but when a black rapper does we get nailed on the cross or something, damn! There's artists that make a difference with their songs and artists who don't make a difference with their songs in all genres of music, not just hip-hop but the media criticises hip-hop much more and shines on the negative things we do and ignore the positive things we do, now you tell me that's fair! :damnlorettas: Don't ask me about the list, I didn't make it but seriously when was the last time you saw KRS-ONE on BET?(yes I brought him up again, well f*** it he's my hero) Wouldn't you like to see Hieroglyphics get airplay too? They put out as much products as G Unit does, they deserve some shine too. They'd rather show 50 Cent videos all day and ignore the positive rappers, it's reality whether you like to hear it or not, that's why "Switch" didn't get as much airplay as "Candy Shop" even though it was as big of a hit if not bigger, that's what's wrong with the rap game right now, action must be made, there's a lot of slaves to the buisiness out there that purposely make hip-hop's image look bad so the conservatives could constantly keep us down, but some of those commercial rappers are too doped up to realise that they're being pimped, many people are blind right now, that's why they'll never take blacks serious in society.

[WesSyde]

was that whole post devoted to me? damn u must be interpreting my posts wrong. i'm not criticizing u or any1, just trying to clarify what MaxFly said and wondering about the list and how true it might be. i'm not an idiot tho i know that KRS-One and Hieroglyphics would never appear on BET, but at the same time do their videos get sent out and stuff? well i know i saw Bone Thugs on BET a couple years ago with their video "Home" and i don't know why Ice Cube would be banned. ahh whatever who cares i'm just talking to myself now.

[bigted]

Well here's further proof that Will ain't no uncle tom that'd sit back and not say anything, here's what he said about 9/11, that's basically on point to what I've been saying here, black americans got a weight on our backs that white americans like Bill O'Reilly doesn't seem to understand, so if you're dissin' Kanye for speakin' up it's like dissin' Will and mostly every black man's opinion, we all gotta relate to each other, we only speak the truth in hip-hop from what we go through in our lives, Will's a millionaire and he still gotta deal with racism himself, prejudice people kick us down whether we have $10 or $10 million in the bank, whether we're squeaky clean or we're felons, it's all the same difference:

http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/2004/...smith_in_f.html

"When asked if 9/11 had changed anything for him personally, Smith answered:

“No. Absolutely not. When you grow up black in America you have a completely different view of the world than white Americans. We blacks live with a constant feeling of unease. And whether you are wounded in an attack by a racist cop or in a terrorist attack, I’m sorry, it makes no difference.”

btw, KRS-ONE and Hieroglyphics are too talented and intelligent to go unnoticed, BET doesn't play who got the most talent, they play who they think will brainwash the youth the most let's be real, they don't wanna play songs that show black men with intelligence, that's why they play dumbed down videos that make the average American think that all black people are just about pimps and hoes. Like I said earlier Bush doesn't deserve all the blame but since like every other president except for Kennedy and Lincoln(who were murdered when trying to stick up for black people) he ignores the black community, we have the right to diss him too, I mean it's only fair, when you ain't part of the solution you are a part of the problem, if somebody constantly ignores you when you constantly tryin' to get through with them wouldn't you be mad? It's like letting somebody constantly kick your ass and just stand there takin' the beatings, you're gonna wanna defend yourself right? That's all we're doing here defending ourselves, damn I thought this was America, I guess the black voice never counts! :damnyou:

[JumpinJack AJ]

I couldn't bare 2 read hardly any of the posts in this topic...but here's my take on it.

The way Kanye has realized that he can get alot of attention and cause countroversy by opening his big mouth has gotten very annoying 2 me. There are times when he dose say something intellegent, but there are alot of annoying, empty things he says...an i think this would be one of those. He's starting 2 remind me of Eminem and how he saw how much attention he waz getting...so he just got more annoying until he got 2 where he is 2day, which isn't a good place (at least 2 real Hip-Hop fans).

I agree with what he said about the "looting/searching" thing, but his other comments are just empty. Big mouth but nothing much coming out of it. If he dosen't want the media twisting the image of black people, then he shouldn't contribute 2 it. One of my friends said this 2day about his comments (almost word for word). "There is white trash and there is black trash...but this isn't about black and white, this is about stupid people and smart people." She then went on 2 say he has a "black trash" attitude and that his ignorant comments are what is gonna make people mad...not the color of his skin. She's 30 years old and grew up in a nearly all black school. She's not racist at all and someone i very much respect, and i can't help with agree with her.

When Chuck D speaks, i listen and form my own opinion...in which i usually agree. When Kanye West speaks, i listen and often drop my head and shake it in dissapointment.

Oh yeah, and i like his new album...but i haven't listened 2 it in like 4 days. So his music isn't keeping me that interested in him either.

[TopDawg14]

Whether or not you agree with what Kayne said or when he said, you'll all have to agree that it's sparking the debate on race which is long overdue.

I think the frustations coming from African-Americans are valid. The images on television are distorted and coming from a certain point of view. The fact is that there will probably be more than 10,000 dead. Everyone from President Bush to the mayor of New Orleans dropped the ball. The mayor is at fault for not coming up with a strategy to get people out. The governor is in charge of the National Guard and waited too long to deploy troops. The president failed because he didn't step in take control when the mayor & governor proved to be ineffective.

What Kayne said is that there is a general mistrust of the government by African-Americans. We have endured 400 years of slavery. After the Civil War ended, we still endured nearly 100 years of Jim Crow. We have endured beatings for nothing(Emmitt Till), hangings and lynchings(James Byrd). While the hangings and lynchings have stopped, the racism still exists on an subconscious level.

Have you ever been pulled over by the cops because "you happen to fit the description of a person who's just committed a crime?" Have you ever gone into a department store only to have an attendant follow you around to make sure you don't steal anything even though you can afford everything in the store? Have you ever walked out of a restaurant with two friends and have a white woman lock her car because she saw 3 black men? Have you ever had a white woman clutch her purse because you were a black man? All of these things happened to me - while I was in college. You have to walk the walk of a black man to understand what Kayne West was talking about. We see the racism of this country and I think this is why Ted is so emotional about this. We look at the situation in New Orleans and see not only racism but classism. I would love not to have to deal with racism and just look at any person of any race as my brother or sister and I do look at everyone as my brother or sister. The fact is that everyone doesn't share my mindset and reality is that there are people who will look at me and not see a man but a n-----. I rise above their ignorance but that doesn't erase the fact that the racism is still there.

[mfuqua23]

TopDawg. Those are very much the same things I was thinking about. The whole fear of black men. That can be either or a subconscious or just a way to protect yourself in today's society. If I were female, I don't care if it was 3 white, blacks or whatever. If I didnt feel safe, the door is locked. So something like that, I don't say "this person thinks all guys or this group is after sex". I look at it as "This is the society we live and and you can't be too safe with such a situation". And I'm not saying I except it. It's more of I know it exists and I have to be careful. It's not going to change overnight.

It's hard for me in a different aspect because I feel I can't be accepted period. Obviously, I'm mixed. My birth mom was black and I guess my birth dad was italian or something. So I don't estill that same pride that other blacks do because I'm seen so differently.

And when I was watchin O'Reiley Factor, O'Reiley basically gave terrorists the idea of "Attack the big major cities" because if a natural disaster or terrorist attack strikes, they just won't be ready or something like that. I forget how he said it.

[MaxFly]

Aight Max I could understand I guess nobody ever made fun of you for the way you look or anything?  I understand, it's not your fault, you don't know what it feels like to have a weight on your back when people constantly put you down for what you look like no matter how much good things you do, btw I'm watching O'Reilly's show right now and he just dissed Kanye West and said rappers have no credibility because of what Kanye West said, he needs to spend some time in a black man's shoes and he'd understand why we feel this way, he acts like we talk about the streetlife for fun but it's our reality, he wants us to relate to him but why can't he relate to us?  We all have different backgrounds but we're all human, the public gotta understand that hip-hop's voice must be heard, no matter how conservative you are, you gotta hear us black people, we're minorities but our thoughts count, if your ancestors faced 200 years of racism, you'd understand homie and btw it don't matter what college you go to or how much high grades you get and you could still be ignorant, knowledge goes beyond the classroom, you have to take what you learned out to the world!

This conversation has taken a ridiculous turn from what Kanye said to personal commentary... I'll indulge you for a second.

I can understand why O'Reilly said what he said. He spews his conservative foolishness and undoubtably has an agenda, so I wouldn't take anything from his seriously, regardless of whether he reflects my sentiments or not. His track record hasn't been good. But he still hasn't been accused of raping anyone Ted. Are you ready to rectify that statement yet.

But in truth, Kanye made a statement on national television that he has no evidence for or proof of. When you say stupid and inappropriate things, you're going to be criticized, ask George Bush. Moreover, when you say stupid things as a representative of some organization, your organization is going to get criticized too. Kanye went on NBC as Kanye West the rapper, not Kanye West the citizen. His celebrity was supposed to attract people and encourage them to send money. Instead, he gave people who already don't like hip hop reason to attack it and through him, attack other rappers.

Ted, don't assume that you know anything about me just because you know what school I go to. There's a reason I don't go around parading my information. I don't know what gave you the right to do it for me, but slow your role, and slow it quickly. You really don't know anything about me. You don't know where I've been in the world nor do you know what I've experienced. I don't pretend to know everything, but I will speak on what I know, and I will call things the way I see it. I will also call into question the inaccurate information people purport to be fact, and there has been a lot of that in this thread. If you're not sure of something, don't post it. If you've heard something, but don't have any evidence for it when it is called into question, don't post it.

Edited September 6, 2005 by MaxFly

[MaxFly]

I'll read and reply tomorrow as i gotta go to sleep.

←

Crack hit the streets in 1984...

I will call you out and put you on blast when you post foolishness of inaccurate information. Do your research before you post if you want to remain credible, cause I have no problem correcting you if you are wrong...

←

Crack cocain is recognized as becoming a huge problem (epidemic) in 84 (or possibly 85), but it hit the streets much earlier, in the late 70's.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, so I don't really put much thought into if Bush Sr. or Reagen or whomever funded/put out crack with a purpose. But I do know that many people believe it. People also believe (including Will Smith, at one point, in reference to Ted bringing him up earlier) that the government introduced AIDS to attack the black population.

There isn't any evidence, that I'm aware of, of crack or aids or whatever coming from the government. But it's not out of the realm of possability (which you seem to be implying). The US government does do some very bad things, as well as some officials in the government. The CIA, or at least some members, did view the Black Panthers as a major threat to the US. As I'm sure you know, Bush Sr. was CIA director from 76-77, rougly the same time that crack began circulation in the US. So maybe, maybe Bush Sr. had something to do with it. I don't really know, I don't think the public ever will know, but it's not all that crazy that it could have happened.

Edit:

I originally started this post with a snide comment, which I just removed. Discussions are interesting and constructive, but snide comments are neither. My bad. My point is that you're being the "fact" police, but people do make mistakes, and not all facts are known. So there's a lot of grey area involved.

←

I'm not the fact police, I admit, but people are making statements that are completely unfounded and it's happend several times in this thread. It's one thing to say that Bush Sr. may have had something to do with putting crack on the street, but the accusation was that he put crack on the streets to keep black people down or something to that effect. The statement was made with certainty as if it is fact. That's simply irresponsible.

Bill O'Reilly was accused of raping someone...

The government doesn't have enough money to deal with the crisis in NO.

It's statements like these that degrade the quality of the debate.

It's one thing to make a mistake, but to stand by something that has been shown to be inaccurate or ambiguous... We need to be more responsible in the things we post.

[WesSyde]

another interesting point that no one has brought up: the mayor of New Orleans happens to be black. he isn't getting as much criticism as the president right now although he deserves to along with FEMA according to Max. just food for thought... i'll let u guys take it away on that one.