MaxFly Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Why are you guys rippin him for this? Run out of things to hate a man for? I mean come on, He's only human. Just leave the poor man alone.... Well, some now consider him to be a leader in the black community. That much has been stated on this forum. Leaders have to be held to some standard. :sick: Yeah and Jesse Jackson cheated on his wife revoke his leader license :rofl: Jesse Jackson's official leadership license has long been revoked, and it had nothing to do with the issue with his wife. It's just that no one has told him yet. It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control. And yet you've never been to church, so exactly where does that insight come from. How can you speak authoratatively on an issue that you yourself have claimed to have never really experienced? Man I ain't into religion I ain't been in church my whole life except for funerals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Kanye doesn't rap about God all the time anyway, "Jesus Walks" was only one song that he did about God, it's just a song, the only people that religious people would take seriously would be gospel singers, if they're real religious they won't even listen to Will 'cause they even think saying damn and hell is cursing. So what are you gonna do then lock yourself in a room, pray to God all day, only listen to hymns, and watch the religious channel all day so you won't sin? lol. The reason why some people might not be too overly religious is 'cause these preachers preach to you about everything you do to make you feel lower than dirt and then they turn around to rape lil' boys. Edited October 12, 2005 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SmoothB Posted October 12, 2005 Members Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Why are you guys rippin him for this? Run out of things to hate a man for? I mean come on, He's only human. Just leave the poor man alone.... Well, some now consider him to be a leader in the black community. That much has been stated on this forum. Leaders have to be held to some standard. :sick: Yeah and Jesse Jackson cheated on his wife revoke his leader license :rofl: Jesse Jackson's official leadership license has long been revoked, and it had nothing to do with the issue with his wife. It's just that no one has told him yet. It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control. And yet you've never been to church, so exactly where does that insight come from. How can you speak authoratatively on an issue that you yourself have claimed to have never really experienced? Man I ain't into religion I ain't been in church my whole life except for funerals. Man it's like you don't have to go to church to know the bull okay I have religious people all in my family and I know people who go to church and they do more dirt in a month then I've done in my whole life.There the people who are so quick to say you need Jesus.Like I said I refuse to beleive that you can do more dirt than me but you get the pass at the gates because you pray to a White Jesus I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) If you put somebody down for not going to church like you do or believe the same religion that you do that's being a "Holy Roller", "If I don't believe what you believe then I'm going to hell?", everybody has the right to believe what they want, I believe in God but I'm not gonna hold a grudge with you or diss you if you don't believe in God. It's your life and you could believe and do what you want, you could smoke crack all day if you want or pray to God all day if you want but as long as you don't personally do anything to me I won't care, I might even be your friend as long as you don't influence that on me if I don't want to do it. Edited October 12, 2005 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Man it's like you don't have to go to church to know the bull okay I have religious people all in my family and I know people who go to church and they do more dirt in a month then I've done in my whole life.There the people who are so quick to say you need Jesus.Like I said I refuse to beleive that you can do more dirt than me but you get the pass at the gates because you pray to a White Jesus I'm sorry. That's understandable, but you've drawn the conclusion that because you know people who don't live what they profess, "It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control." It only means that the people you have observed may not be genuine or mature in their faith. It doesn't mean that church is fake or is a form of mind control. Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a "White Jesus." Are you criticizing the religion itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawad_m Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Man it's like you don't have to go to church to know the bull okay I have religious people all in my family and I know people who go to church and they do more dirt in a month then I've done in my whole life.There the people who are so quick to say you need Jesus.Like I said I refuse to beleive that you can do more dirt than me but you get the pass at the gates because you pray to a White Jesus I'm sorry. That's understandable, but you've drawn the conclusion that because you know people who don't live what they profess, "It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control." It only means that the people you have observed may not be genuine or mature in their faith. It doesn't mean that church is fake or is a form of mind control. Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a "White Jesus." Are you criticizing the religion itself? There's a common perception that Jesus is white by European Chistians because they want him to look the way they look :damnyou: , while black Christians made representations of a black jesus to counter that, but none of them are true, the exact skin colour can never be known but he was likely olive skinned seeing as he was oriental, from the middle east.. I agree with a lot of SmoothB said, I wen't to church as a kid, and I don't think it made be any better of a person, in fact I despise a lot of religious people, and a lot of Christians because they are the biggest "Holy rollers" you have ever seen!..the only way the religion benefited me is when I read it myself, most Christianity is redundant today because it's the opposite of what the religion really is, for instance your not ment to mix religion with politics in christianity but supposed christian groups are deeply involved in politics-just check out the US Evangelicals :mygod: :nolachen: Organised religion, usually deviates from the truth significantly and it's not worth going to the majority of churches because their not Christianity On Kanye West: kanye west is everywhere, :sick: his starting to get more annoying then 50 cent..I think theirs more worthy things to be spending money on then $500 on porn, and for me it's not really a religious thing, it's being something that your not, I think that Kanye is the ultimate marketer, he's everywhere, it seems he just wants to be contraversial for the sake of being contraversial, I agree with a lot of what he says, heck perhaps 95% of it, radio doesn't want to play music with a message(Jesus walks), his views on George Bush(hell most people do)...but if you look at it most of his big statements recently are designed to make him look like a sort of reformer/leader and to prop up his albums sales..a lot of what he says is vague and generalized and used to shock, +it's contradictiory: Claims radio wont play a christian message-not really living up to christianity himself, and the discrimination against gays statement he did also seems to be another one of those tools he uses to portray himself as a trailbrazer, as a civil rights kind of a leader-yet the very views he's putting out contradict the very basis of the religion he upholds...It's always a case of "look at me look at me" with Kanye...It has nothing to do with religion Edited October 12, 2005 by rawad_m Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 There's a common perception that Jesus is white by European Chistians because they want him to look the way they look :damnyou: , while black Christians made representations of a black jesus to counter that, but none of them are true, the exact skin colour can never be known but he was likely olive skinned seeing as he was oriental, from the middle east.. Indeed, this is well know, but in context, it seemed to be a statement made more to criticize Christianity rather than to add to the discussion. As a result, I simply wanted to know what the significance of the reference "White Jesus" was to the discussion of church being fake or carrying out mind control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic1988 Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 just been a perception of mine that porn was a sin in the Christian bible cuz it seems like it would be, doesn't it?yeah you got a point there. true dat Ted i done it too (porn) and all the other teens i know have had sex. i think i'm the only virgin in the world sometimes. i admit i've sinned but at the same time, i've never smoke anything, never drank anything. i admit i've sinned and i think Kanye can do it too, but the issue for me is why is he talking about Jesus if he's a porn addict? or is his Jesus different than the Jesus i associate with? me personally, i don't suscribe to any one religion right now tho i've been raised a Christian and committed to God i've lost interest in it and i don't know what i want to believe yet. word up, virgin right here!!! I'm not ashamed. I probally wouldn't be right now but all my friends know these ugly-@ss girls. And my school isn't any better at getting good looking girls. Also, I have smoked ciggarettes and I have done weed (only once though), never got drunk, but my uncle grows grapes for people who make wine so I have drank wine, and of course at church. Finially, :word: on not suscribing to any religion, I've been baptized, but I'm more along the lines of just respecting each religion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnazz Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 That's understandable, but you've drawn the conclusion that because you know people who don't live what they profess, "It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control." It only means that the people you have observed may not be genuine or mature in their faith. It doesn't mean that church is fake or is a form of mind control. Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a "White Jesus." Are you criticizing the religion itself? I can't speak to SmoothB's intentions, but the "White Jesus" can definitely be seen as mind control. During slavery, Africans where brought to North America (among other places) and part of how they where "civilized" was to convert them to Christianity. This conversion was seen as another form of trying to keep them down, in place. Not only where the white slave owners supposed to be superior, Jesus, and God through extension, the most superior of beings, was white. This is seen as a major piece of psychological warfare. If "man" was created in God's image, and God is white, then white people must be closer to god then anyone else. As for mind control, there's some truth to that claim. I'm not saying that all of religion is pure mind control, but certain aspects at certain times have been. (is that enough of a disclaimer?) One of the basic tenets of most Christian sects is that you should have faith. Faith is the complete confidence in God, and by extension, the teachings of that particular church. This complete confidence can teach you to ignore outside information, blindly trust in God. Now, many religious leaders try and balance that, but there are many who do not. Additionally, throughout history and even the current US, Christian churches have gone significantly against what modern science has (correctly) described as the functioning of the world. Ranging from the famous claim that the world is the center of the universe (with the subsequent attacks of scientists that claimed otherwise), to the modern debate on evolution verses intelligent design. Even beyond these large issues, there's more, smaller ways that the church can do the thinking for the people. Though it's illegal in the US, what rawad pointed out about the voting does occur. Many people, before making decisions, will want to consult their preacher (pastor, whatever your flavor is). Not in purely religious areas, but in many areas of life. So yes, for a lot of people, church is a form of mind control, on one level or another. Not necessarily everyone, or always in a significant way, but it does occur frequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Man it's like you don't have to go to church to know the bull okay I have religious people all in my family and I know people who go to church and they do more dirt in a month then I've done in my whole life.There the people who are so quick to say you need Jesus.Like I said I refuse to beleive that you can do more dirt than me but you get the pass at the gates because you pray to a White Jesus I'm sorry. That's understandable, but you've drawn the conclusion that because you know people who don't live what they profess, "It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control." It only means that the people you have observed may not be genuine or mature in their faith. It doesn't mean that church is fake or is a form of mind control. Also, I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to a "White Jesus." Are you criticizing the religion itself? There's a common perception that Jesus is white by European Chistians because they want him to look the way they look :damnyou: , while black Christians made representations of a black jesus to counter that, but none of them are true, the exact skin colour can never be known but he was likely olive skinned seeing as he was oriental, from the middle east.. I agree with a lot of SmoothB said, I wen't to church as a kid, and I don't think it made be any better of a person, in fact I despise a lot of religious people, and a lot of Christians because they are the biggest "Holy rollers" you have ever seen!..the only way the religion benefited me is when I read it myself, most Christianity is redundant today because it's the opposite of what the religion really is, for instance your not ment to mix religion with politics in christianity but supposed christian groups are deeply involved in politics-just check out the US Evangelicals :mygod: :nolachen: Organised religion, usually deviates from the truth significantly and it's not worth going to the majority of churches because their not Christianity On Kanye West: kanye west is everywhere, :sick: his starting to get more annoying then 50 cent..I think theirs more worthy things to be spending money on then $500 on porn, and for me it's not really a religious thing, it's being something that your not, I think that Kanye is the ultimate marketer, he's everywhere, it seems he just wants to be contraversial for the sake of being contraversial, I agree with a lot of what he says, heck perhaps 95% of it, radio doesn't want to play music with a message(Jesus walks), his views on George Bush(hell most people do)...but if you look at it most of his big statements recently are designed to make him look like a sort of reformer/leader and to prop up his albums sales..a lot of what he says is vague and generalized and used to shock, +it's contradictiory: Claims radio wont play a christian message-not really living up to christianity himself, and the discrimination against gays statement he did also seems to be another one of those tools he uses to portray himself as a trailbrazer, as a civil rights kind of a leader-yet the very views he's putting out contradict the very basis of the religion he upholds...It's always a case of "look at me look at me" with Kanye...It has nothing to do with religion Yeah people tryin' to persuade you to believe their religious beliefs is just as bad as trying to somebody to do drugs when they don't want to, we all have our own beliefs and we need to respect each other's point of view. I mean as long as Kanye doesn't encourage kids to watch pornos publicly he could do what he wants behind closed doors and I have nothing against that, his mother came out and said it not him, you don't have to be perfect to be a role model either, it's the parents that raise the kids, if they were there for them they wouldn't do some of the things they do, you can't put all the weight on the entertainers to do that, even 2Pac would smoke weed on his free time but he's called the greatest rapper for his great songs with positive messages, you could call him a hypocrite if you want but he was human. Now as far Kanye the rapper no way in hell would ever like him as much as LL, FP, KRS, Chuck D, Nas, Pac, etc. to call him one of my favorites but I try to bring an open minded point of view to the table more now so I don't have to always beef about it with those that like him here. Edited October 12, 2005 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozmo D Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I guarantee you that Will Smith had more than his share of groupies before he got married. I also guarantee you that just about every adult male entertainer and most of the females have watched porn. As for the living up to your music thing, why is it that only rappers seem to be expected to do that? They're songs people, nothing more. I do believe that rappers have a responsibility to at least balance their lyrics so at least their every word is not influencing their fans into a self-destructive mind state. We all know that many are failing at that woefully. But, they should be able to live their lives as they choose, as long as they're not hurting anybody else. They're only entertainers after all. A few quick points on the Bible. As the 10 Commandments were understood and practiced at the time they were written and throughout the Old Teastament, Adultery could not be committed by a man unless he slept with another man's wife. It was a rule intended to keep wives in line. The rules on fornication were to keep female virgins in line. If a man slept with a virgin that was unbetrothed he had to marry her. If she was betrothed they would both be put to death. Otherwise, men, married or not, could sleep with whomever they chose (outside of family and in-laws and such) whenever they chose. Of course, that basically only left prostitutes, but the 10 Commandments was quite fine with that. I would say that if the Old Testament didn't frown on men sleeping with prostitutes it would probably not care much about men enjoying porn either. BTW, I am a deeply Christian, though just as deeply non-religious person, and have been for many years. I have been with my wife for over 26 years now and married to her for over 24. I have never cheated on her, with groupies or anybody else. We have a nice little porn collection (and even a few toys) and enjoy them together from time to time. :1-say-yes: Oh, and anybody who would think of Kanye West as some kind of leader is easily misled. I also agree with MaxFly that Jesse Jackson lost his leadership card a LONG time ago, and as far as I'm concerned Al Sharpton never even had one. Hell, I know That I never voted for either of them. I must have missed the memo about the election. :shrug: :rofl: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenetic Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Why are you guys rippin him for this? Run out of things to hate a man for? I mean come on, He's only human. Just leave the poor man alone.... Well, some now consider him to be a leader in the black community. That much has been stated on this forum. Leaders have to be held to some standard. :sick: so this is a personal thing against people considering him a leader? WHAT has he done? Ray Charles was a basehead dawg. JFK fukkked marilyn Bill Clinton got his **** blo** by Monica DMX is a crackhead/was The list goes on. They were all "leaders" in they genre or community.. Should i even bring up people like Malcom.. Ali and more... disrespecting their religion? Shut the hell up mayne. Dude watches pornos and admitts. he doesn't say u should do it, not even in his songs. His songs are positive... his songs are important as a spokesman in the mainstream fo voices that are not heard otherwise. now when a rapper is negative.. u say he needs to be positive.. Whens he's positive... he's a pervert... aah..shut the hell up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) Yeah it's like when a rapper does something the media wants to cut their head off forever but when a government leader does something people forget about it gradually, it should be double standard, as long as rappers balance out their lyrics to not rap about sex, drugs, and guns all the time that's ok, even LL makes songs about sex but he don't do it every song. Edited October 12, 2005 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-o-e Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Wow, what a gold digger.. :rofl: :rofl: Porndigger :gettinjiggywitit: :pony: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxFly Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 (edited) I can't speak to SmoothB's intentions, but the "White Jesus" can definitely be seen as mind control. During slavery, Africans where brought to North America (among other places) and part of how they where "civilized" was to convert them to Christianity. This conversion was seen as another form of trying to keep them down, in place. Not only where the white slave owners supposed to be superior, Jesus, and God through extension, the most superior of beings, was white. This is seen as a major piece of psychological warfare. If "man" was created in God's image, and God is white, then white people must be closer to god then anyone else. As for mind control, there's some truth to that claim. I'm not saying that all of religion is pure mind control, but certain aspects at certain times have been. (is that enough of a disclaimer?) One of the basic tenets of most Christian sects is that you should have faith. Faith is the complete confidence in God, and by extension, the teachings of that particular church. This complete confidence can teach you to ignore outside information, blindly trust in God. Now, many religious leaders try and balance that, but there are many who do not. Additionally, throughout history and even the current US, Christian churches have gone significantly against what modern science has (correctly) described as the functioning of the world. Ranging from the famous claim that the world is the center of the universe (with the subsequent attacks of scientists that claimed otherwise), to the modern debate on evolution verses intelligent design. Even beyond these large issues, there's more, smaller ways that the church can do the thinking for the people. Though it's illegal in the US, what rawad pointed out about the voting does occur. Many people, before making decisions, will want to consult their preacher (pastor, whatever your flavor is). Not in purely religious areas, but in many areas of life. So yes, for a lot of people, church is a form of mind control, on one level or another. Not necessarily everyone, or always in a significant way, but it does occur frequently. Specification... It's so fake church isn't nothing but mind control. Generalization... He made a statement in the absence of nuance or any qualifying specifications, so I had to ask about his point of view. edited for those annoying quotation issues... gotta make the text pretty Edited October 12, 2005 by MaxFly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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