Kanye West's Mom Shocked on How much he spends on....

[MaxFly]

Cozmo makes a good point concerning focusing on teachings rather than the teacher, but oftentimes, a living example is far more powerful than the words he or she speaks, especially for young people. Young people are more realily apt to act on what they see rather than what they hear. At the very least, it creates a sense confusion... should a person heed what is said, or what is done.

The ironic thing is that, I'm willing to bet, the majority of modern rappers live "better" lives than they rap about. Kids probably would be better off seeing those rappers real lives rather then listening to their music.

Lol, excellent point. As Cozmo said, a lot of these rappers are making music depicting themselves as international drug lords while they're claiming that they're keeping it real. It's one thing when it's simply entertainment, and even then, a lot of the content in these rhymes is questionable, but when the line is blurred between entertainment and reality as many of these rappers have done, it becomes apparent that a lot of them don't even remember how to keep it real. In that respect, Kanye's a better pick, but I think we can still do better.

[bigted]

Cozmo makes a good point concerning focusing on teachings rather than the teacher, but oftentimes, a living example is far more powerful than the words he or she speaks, especially for young people. Young people are more realily apt to act on what they see rather than what they hear. At the very least, it creates a sense confusion... should a person heed what is said, or what is done.

The ironic thing is that, I'm willing to bet, the majority of modern rappers live "better" lives than they rap about. Kids probably would be better off seeing those rappers real lives rather then listening to their music.

Lol, excellent point. As Cozmo said, a lot of these rappers are making music depicting themselves as international drug lords while they're claiming that they're keeping it real. It's one thing when it's simply entertainment, and even then, a lot of the content in these rhymes is questionable, but when the line is blurred between entertainment and reality as many of these rappers have done, it becomes apparent that a lot of them don't even remember how to keep it real. In that respect, Kanye's a better pick, but I think we can still do better.

There's something wrong with the rap game if people consider Kanye West the most conscious rapper 'cause he's not, his music is far from that, and I think it's quite overrated so maybe that's what makes me want to not be open minded about his personal life, he looks up to Mase maybe that's why he contradicts himself, the next topic we'll be discussing soon is Kanye West signing to G Unit records, he already talks about wanting to record with Eminem so that wouldn't be much of a stretch...

[MaxFly]

Now if you wanna know the epitome of contradictory, look at Mase, he retires from rap to become a preacher and talks about how he wants to clean up the rap game when he came back but after his album flopped hecomes back now and signs with G-Unit, the ones that're polluting the rap game the most. :hmm: At least Kanye hasn't gone that far yet and he does do songs about girls just like JJFP do: "Golddiger", "Slow Jams", "Breathe In, Breathe Out", "Workout Plan", etc., so I guess it's ok for him to fantasise about women if it's ok if JJFP had groupies right? Kanye wouldn't be called a conscious rapper like he is if he didn't release "Jesus Walks" as a single, it's only one song, that'd be like if Will released "The Rain" I guess people would call him a conscious rapper too.

Mase, Mase, Mase... There are so many stories as to why he left music and New York, very few people know exactly what to believe.

As for Kanye... I'm not sure we can compare a song like "Workout Plan" to "Girls."

Edited October 13, 2005 by MaxFly

[MaxFly]

Cozmo makes a good point concerning focusing on teachings rather than the teacher, but oftentimes, a living example is far more powerful than the words he or she speaks, especially for young people. Young people are more realily apt to act on what they see rather than what they hear. At the very least, it creates a sense confusion... should a person heed what is said, or what is done.

The ironic thing is that, I'm willing to bet, the majority of modern rappers live "better" lives than they rap about. Kids probably would be better off seeing those rappers real lives rather then listening to their music.

Lol, excellent point. As Cozmo said, a lot of these rappers are making music depicting themselves as international drug lords while they're claiming that they're keeping it real. It's one thing when it's simply entertainment, and even then, a lot of the content in these rhymes is questionable, but when the line is blurred between entertainment and reality as many of these rappers have done, it becomes apparent that a lot of them don't even remember how to keep it real. In that respect, Kanye's a better pick, but I think we can still do better.

There's something wrong with the rap game if people consider Kanye West the most conscious rapper 'cause he's not, his music is far from that, and I think it's quite overrated so maybe that's what makes me want to not be open minded about his personal life, he looks up to Mase maybe that's why he contradicts himself, the next topic we'll be discussing soon is Kanye West signing to G Unit records, he already talks about wanting to record with Eminem so that wouldn't be much of a stretch...

I don't think that we are just talking about Kanye. We've had discussions about Common and others in the past as well. The real discussion has morphed from the Kanye issue to more of a general issue with conscious rappers in general.

[bigted]

Now if you wanna know the epitome of contradictory, look at Mase, he retires from rap to become a preacher and talks about how he wants to clean up the rap game when he came back but after his album flopped hecomes back now and signs with G-Unit, the ones that're polluting the rap game the most. :hmm: At least Kanye hasn't gone that far yet and he does do songs about girls just like JJFP do: "Golddiger", "Slow Jams", "Breathe In, Breathe Out", "Workout Plan", etc., so I guess it's ok for him to fantasise about women if it's ok if JJFP had groupies right? Kanye wouldn't be called a conscious rapper like he is if he didn't release "Jesus Walks" as a single, it's only one song, that'd be like if Will released "The Rain" I guess people would call him a conscious rapper too.

Mase, Mase, Mase... There are so many stories as to why he left music and New York, very few people know exactly what to belive.

As for Kanye... I'm not sure we can compare a song like "Workout Plan" to "Girls."

Yeah "Workout Plan" is much more explicit and wacker than "Girls..." and is the reason why I wouldn't consider Kanye a conscious rapper, if he released "Breathe In, Breathe Out" and threw in half-naked hoes instead of "Jesus Walks", he wouldn't be called conscious at all, I don't understand how people could raise the bar so high on him as a rapper to be the savior of rap 'cause he follows the same trends that other commercial rappers do, he collabs with so many of those commercial rappers, any protege of Jay-Z is not gonna clean up the rap game, he dumbs down just like Jay-Z does but at least Jigga could flow, even a flow could go only so far without subject matter. In his interviews though he does hype himself as the savior of rap so I guess if you put it that way, I guess there's no reason for people not to diss him. The point that I was making is Kanye is just as human as JJFP are, it ain't like they never looked at porno before either I'm sure, especially since thye had groupies back stage and I'm sure they weren't eating milk and cookies, lol. If we're talkin' morals JJFP could be hold accountable for that just as much as Kanye, just 'cause they make better music they Kanye doesn't excuse them, who am I to judge though, I ain't perfect either. Now critics could criticise JJFP for bangin' hoes backstage when they didn't make songs about celebrating that, then again Will admitted that he was wrong for doing that in "Afro Angel", so maybe if Kanye did that then it'd be all good then. Now if we get back to the music where I could be more critical, lol, I think JJFP are closer to conscious rap than Kanye is, the only ones I truely consider conscious rappers are the ones that don't follow trends to sell records, they might only 10,000-20,000 albums but they don't dumb down into something they ain't, that's why we don't have KRS and Lil' Brother selling 2 million like Kanye not that they ain't talented enough to do that, they just don't dumb down, you could Will dumbs down too with "Gettin' Jiggy Wit It" type songs but he keeps it clean and respectful still so it's ok for him to dumb down, it ain't like he's rappin' about doing drugs or how his guns are bigger than Lil' Bow Wow, he just raps about clean fun. The problem of the rap game is like LL said there's no balance, we don't have every rapper clean cut like JJFP but not every rapper should be as explicit as Dr. Dre either, nobody has to be a role model, they should be themselves instead of trying to be somebody else, don't try to be clean cut if you ain't, don't be hardcore when you're really soft as a cupcake, that's what it comes down to.

Edited October 13, 2005 by bigted

[bigted]

This song "Conscious Rapper" by KRS-ONE has 10X more of a powerful message than "Jesus Walks", he's the most skilled conscious rapper that ever lived in my opinion, I think it's on the same level as "Lost and Found", too bad this couldn't been a huge single, this would put the whole rap industry in its place, Kanye needs to listen to this too, he should releasise that he shouldn't "expect respect from slaves and hoes/or the slavemasters video shows/nor the rap mags/especially black mags, you know how that goes"(when he complains about getting a higher rating than he did or not getting enough awards):

You think this is easy right? (Yeah!)

You think this is easy right? (That's easy!)

You think you got what it takes? (Yeah that's easy!)

Huh, we gon' see.. we gon' see right now (Now what?)

Look

[KRS-One]

So you wanna be a conscious rapper

Can you handle the press and they negative chatter

Can you eat cold platters, and still spit data

Watchin others spit lies and they pockets get fatter

Can you climb up the ladder, and reach the top?

But it still doesn't matter, cause you ain't pop

Can you rock for the love of the art

Can you drop hit after hit after hit and still don't chart?

Can you REALLY stay loyal to God

when your life is full of strife, plus it always seems so hard

Can you handle the criticism

People holdin you up to higher standards, but they don't live 'em?

Can you hear these kiddy flows and laugh at it

But when you spit they callin you arrogant?

You better think about that before you rock to this

Sometimes it's easier to pop your Cris', let's do it!

[Chorus: *sung*]

Think you can do what I do

Think you can step in my shoes

You have no clue what I go through

You never felt my pain

When they attack my name

All because I have spoken the truth

[KRS-One]

To be a conscious rapper ain't a mystery

You gotta laugh when they call you contradictory

The whole industry, you gotta push and pull it

To really get with me, you gotta dodge they bullets

Blaow, blaow, blaow, every day and every way

You critics got somethin to say

At the same time, you gotta uphold Christ

Uphold life, while others flash cars and ice

It could break you down, take you down, make you frown

It could actually shake your ground

But if you love who you are, and believe in that

Best believe you will BE where the teacher's at

And where's that? In fact, in cold or heat

Yes, I declare victory over the streets

Overstand, over these beats, over the so-called elite

Over the strong, over the weak

I know how to speak, and most of all I know how to eat

I know I want humble and meek

So you better think about that before you rock to this

Sometimes it's easier to pop your Cris', uhh

[Chorus]

[KRS-One]

Look!

So you thinkin about bein a concious MC

Well you gotta love God and you got to live free

You got to see the life that others can't see

You got to be the person that others can't be

You can't be a S-L-A, V-E

If you sayin to yourself, "This may be me"

Then you know goin in that you work against sin

Your very skills will kill the demons within

So don't expect respect from slaves and hoes

Nor the slavemaster's video shows

Nor the rap mags, you know how it go

Especially black mags, you know they don't know

Just go to the crowd that you know will need you

Cause NOTHING compares to the respect of the people

That's what you look for, that's what you work with

Cause anything else, is truly worthless

You better think about that before you rock to this

Sometimes it's easier to just pop your Cris'

You better think about that, 'fore you rock to this

Sometimes it's easier to just pop your Cris', uhh

[Chorus] - repeat 2X

Edited October 13, 2005 by bigted

[Jazzy Julie]

wow this post has touched a lot of topics.

First off about Kaynes porn collection, thats nothin, i kinda expect all guys to have a porn stash, but maybe thats me thinking little of guys lol..sorry. Its just something guys do, so why not Kayne.

This whole christianity mind control thingy is crazy. If that were true how come there are so many people that dont believe and have no religion at all. Both me and my brother were treated the same and were sent to sunday school from a young age and had to go to church too. I stopped going when i was about 11 and when i found my friends didnt believe, i lost interest in it and so did my brother. As ive grown older, with no-one pressuring me, i found my religion again by myself. Sometimes there was just no-one else to turn to. Nobody forced me into religion, i was just encouraged that way. My brother who was treated the same as me doesnt believe in it at all and thinks when u die u die.

I never speak to any1 about my relgion, in fact the most ive ever said is on this board. Ive mentioned before to people that i believe in the afterlife and then this person began telling me how its stupid to believe that. What right does anyone have to tell me what to believe. And so its best kept to myself and i never preach to anyone for what they should believe either.

[Frenetic]

Well nobody is actually saying Kanye is the most conscious rapper on the scene, but he is the one getting most time in the limelight. In a recent interview with a radioshow overhere, he even said that he didn't like to be called the political rapper, or the conscious cat. Cause he says he raps about being a human being and what comes with being a human being. That's why he speeks on contradictions, that's why he makes jesus walks shouting out that killers has jesus walking with them. Or about golddiggers, the state of the black community (check out the new single Heard 'Em Say).

And, he also said that when he was younger, he loved the bling bling rap. He loved all the chains and flashy stuff, so when he got a lil bit older, his dream was producing for Mase, Puffy, Biggie and other major players that did the whole bling thing. But as all men, he has grown up. Common speaked on that in Vibe i think it was saying that Kanye was just a irritating brat wanting to get some of my shine cause Common had started to get big in CHI-City by then. And he didn't even do good beats that he liked. It wasn't until Kanye moved to NY and started hanging out with D-dot, Dead Pres, Nas, Talib, Mos that he got some schooling on what is more real hiphop.

Like u can' use the contradictions against him, cause he knows about it, he raps about it. He is admitting;

All falls down:

Man I promise, I'm so self conscious

That's why you always see me with at least one of my watches

Rollies and Pasha's done drove me crazy

I can't even pronounce nothing, pass that versace!

Then I spent 400 bucks on this

Just to be like nigga you ain't up on this!

And I can't even go to the grocery store

Without some ones thats clean and a shirt with a team

It seems we living the american dream

But the people highest up got the lowest self esteem

The prettiest people do the ugliest things

For the road to riches and diamond rings

We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us

We trying to buy back our 40 acres

And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop

Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coupe

I say **** the police, thats how I treat em

We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom

We'll buy a lot of clothes when we don't really need em

Things we buy to cover up what's inside

Cause they make us hate ourself and love they wealth

Man those last two bars is insane.

From the most wack song on College Dropout:

Golly, more of that bull**** ice rap

I got to 'pologize to Mos and Kweli (probably)

But is it cool to rap about gold

If I told the world I copped it from Ghana and Mali? (Mali!)

First nigga with a Benz and a backpack

Ice chain, Cardi lens, and a knapsack

Always said if I rapped I'd say somethin' significant

But now I'm rappin' 'bout money, hoes, and rims again

And it's still about the Benjamins

Big faced hundreds and whatever other synonyms

Strippers named Cinnamon

More chips than Pentium

What'cha gon' buy next? Whatever new trend it is

I'm tryin' to spend my stacks

And I'm so broke I look back like "Damn, was I on crack?"

I mean twelve platinum chains, was I on that?

What the hell was wrong with me dog?

And the new single:

They say people in life are seasons,

and anything that happens is for a reason

And niggaz gun clapping to keep the squeezing

and gram keep praying and keep believing

In Jesus, and one day that you see him

Til they walk in his footsteps and try to be him

The devil is alive I feel him breathing

Claiming money is the key, so keep on dreaming

And put them lottery tickets just to tease us

My aunt Pam can't them cigarettes down

So now my little cousin smoking them cigarettes now

His job try to claim that he too niggerish now

Is it cause be skin blacker than liquorish now

I can't figure it out, I'm so sick of it now

Actually; the minid control thing is a touchy subject.

Ehm..as u prolly know... the whole catholic church and the pope did tell people what was right and wrong in things they didn't have any knowledge in in the dark ages / medieval times.

But Mind Control now? No, maybe ignorant followers and some specific churches. But not as a guideline form the catholic church.

[bigted]

Yeah Kanye's basically like JJFP, Jay-Z, or LL on the fact that he ain't really gangsta or conscious, he's just an mc that raps about many different things, he works with all different types of artists like they do 'cause even Will collabed with Lil' Kim before too, and yes he does admit that he's human in his songs. I sometimes forget though 'cause I really don't listen to his music that much, lol, and I don't listen to all of his interviews, the only ones I happen to catch are the ones where he's bragging. But I don't agree with dumbing down though but I guess if Kanye and JJFP never dumbed down only I handful of people would listen to them, they don't do it all the time like G-Unit, but I think the conscious rappers deserve to have a massive audience just like the gangsta rappers do, there needs to be balance like LL said.

Edited October 13, 2005 by bigted

[Frenetic]

Yeah Kanye's basically like JJFP, Jay-Z, or LL on the fact that he ain't really gangsta or conscious, he's just an mc that raps about many different things, he works with all different types of artists like they do 'cause even Will collabed with Lil' Kim before too, and yes he does admit that he's human in his songs. I sometimes forget though 'cause I really don't listen to his music that much, lol, and I don't listen to all of his interviews, the only ones I happen to catch are the ones where he's bragging. But I don't agree with dumbing down though but I guess if Kanye and JJFP never dumbed down only I handful of people would listen to them, they don't do it all the time like G-Unit, but I think the conscious rappers deserve to have a massive audience just like the gangsta rappers do, there needs to be balance like LL said.

Well u know, people dumb down in different ways. We all know how Willie dumbed down in some of his songs.

How jay-s did (he also admitted it) and Nas never admitted it but come on.. some of the songs he made after illmatic was like: WTF DUDE?

Kanye dumbs down in for example Golddigger by being very catchy and easy on the hook. It's a very light song. He did the same with workout plan. That's a fun song, but not one of his best. So he uses the shine from those songs and make peoplpe buy the album, just like will does or any other rapper does (well not G-unit). Kanye did though make a bold decisision in diamonds from siearra leone as lead single. That didn't turn out so well, so they were quick with golddigger.

Now Heard Em say is coming which is a dumb decision in commercial wise. Well, it does have a white singer on it, so maybe. But the song is very....ehm..how should i put it... it makes u feel pretty sad, and hopeless. It is different from his others songs. It won't be a hit, cause kanye is way too much in the whole political thing after the beef with bushie boy. Touch the sky after golddigger would be perfect.

On a whole other subject: Michael Moore was present at Kanyes tour startoff loving the show. Now that's a team..

Edited October 13, 2005 by Frenetic

[bigted]

Yeah Nas did dumb down to get more of an audience just like Jay-Z, that's why people compare them I guess but if they made all their albums like "Illmatic" and "Reasonable Doubt" which are their lowest selling albums they'd have smaller audiences than they do now, and the massive audience opens up to discover "Illmatic" and "Reasonable Doubt" now after they're famous.

[Hero1]

I'm not sure which is worse the fact that an artist dumbs down their music..or the fact that it works... :word:

[mfuqua23]

How do u dumb down music? i never understood that.

[WesSyde]

How do u dumb down music? i never understood that.

It's not that hard to understand really. it's just when artists switch up their style to gain wider acceptance from the mainstream fanbase. an example would be if Will went from making Tell Me Why to making Gettin Jiggy Wit It. Gettin Jiggy isn't a dumb song but the term dumbing down means songs that don't make you think, you just flow with them and don't need to think about the lyrics to them.

[bigted]

Basically dumbing down is making music that appeals to a younger audience, nothin' more than somethin' to dance to, something extremely catchy and it started with Sugar Hill Gang's "Rappers Delight" as the 1st commercial rap single, even Run-Dmc dumbed down "Walk This Way" is catchy is hell but a classic of course, but that's why a lot of people thought that rap wouldn't last in the '80s in a sense 'cause there was nothin' more than dance songs most of the time until conscious and gangsta rappers came out and started rapping more than just about being at the club, it was looking to be a novelty like disco if that didn't happen, that's happening again except most of the dumbed down songs suck now. There's nothin' wrong with makin' fun songs but when rappers celebrate gettin' high, bangin' a lot of hoes, and having a lot of guns then that's not a good image to potray since it's being aimed to the youth that listen to the radio, even when Will dumbs down he's still keepin' the positive image, even "Party Starter" has a catchy sound to it.