Get your Philosophy on

[Schnazz]

I belive that we are born with a sinful nature and that the smartest and stongest people break out of that and live their lives 2 the fullest.

But some of the most effective murderers in history have been incredibly smart and strong, while many simple, weak people have lead good lives.

Life doesn't create itself.

Naw, but the laws of physics can create life.

The idea that this universe and life started all on it's own is insane and pathetic.

Why?

I don't think so there's always been a war happening at some place during a particular time in human history..I think there are some leaders of today and the recent the past, mostly socialists who have admirable ambitions for such a society but it hardly works out in practice

So you don't think environment doesn't play a part in the creation of a persons psyche?

Can't have one without the other.

in order for their to be good, there must be bad.

In order for you to be truly happy, you have to expiernce Sad.

I don't think it's possible for EVERY perosn to be complely nice to each other.

So you think that certain people can only be happy by causing grief in others, that people only measure happiness in relation to sadness, or both?

I don't think a utopian world is possible.. there will always be conflict..and man will always resort to its base instincts.. In fact I think you need this for the world to keep spinning.. I guess its how we cope with this that will determine humanities progress in the future

What in basic instincts do people have that mean they have to cause pain in others? Or is it a basic need for more?

(I have a reverse Socratic Method happening tonight, I'm hoping to learn something myself by asking a lot of questions :)

Is a eutopian world possible?

This forum is in desperate need of a spell check! :lolsign: :lolsign:

Edited October 28, 2005 by Schnazz

[Hero1]

they dont have to schnazz but they have the ability to..and when you got a few billion people someone will end up causing pain on another.. It might not even be intentional.. friction causes movement right? If the world was entirely happy and content what the hell would they do :lolsign:

what's more important.. striving to be happy? or being happy? :stickpoke:

[Lerkot]

Seems like my whole life is insane and pathetic to AJ since I will always think that the world created itself. Thats more logic than that God created the world, I mean, if you put it that way, who created God?

If God creates everything, nothing you do will determine your life and thats just a sad thought. I dont believe in "the belief in God" *edited by tim* (watch your language lerk)

And if there is a God, against ALL logic and physics, then he is abusing his power and should be replaced.

"I belive that we are born with a sinful nature and that the smartest and stongest people break out of that and live their lives 2 the fullest."

And aint that a bit of World War II-thinking? Nah, I'd say the people who work the hardest is the winners.

And one more thing: AJ, do you believe in the Christian god or in some other god?

Edited October 28, 2005 by Hero1

[Da Brakes]

Seems like my whole life is insane and pathetic to AJ since I will always think that the world created itself. Thats more logic than that God created the world, I mean, if you put it that way, who created God?

If God creates everything, nothing you do will determine your life and thats just a sad thought. The believe in God is pathetic and insane.

And if there is a God, against ALL logic and physics, then he is abusing his power and should be replaced.

"I belive that we are born with a sinful nature and that the smartest and stongest people break out of that and live their lives 2 the fullest."

And aint that a bit of World War II-thinking? Nah, I'd say the people who work the hardest is the winners.

And one more thing: AJ, do you believe in the Christian god or in some other god?

People really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people.

I'm with AJ on this one! I'm a Christian and Christians believe that God created the world/universe. Ultimately God is all powerful/all knowing/omniscient. He created us but also gave us free will to do as we please (which is displayed by all the wierd and wonderful things which occur in this world)

If God wantwed, He could turn around and make every single living source turn around and worship Him. But he doesn't because what would you prefer? A nation that worships you because you frce them to, or a nation that worships you because they choose to? The latter is definately more rewarding.

And as for the question who created God.......God was always....He wasn't created. He is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. Its not the human way of thinking that God was always there but thats just the matter. God isn't a regular human being like you and me. We have to have a higher level of understanding

[Lerkot]

Seems like my whole life is insane and pathetic to AJ since I will always think that the world created itself. Thats more logic than that God created the world, I mean, if you put it that way, who created God?

If God creates everything, nothing you do will determine your life and thats just a sad thought. The believe in God is pathetic and insane.

And if there is a God, against ALL logic and physics, then he is abusing his power and should be replaced.

"I belive that we are born with a sinful nature and that the smartest and stongest people break out of that and live their lives 2 the fullest."

And aint that a bit of World War II-thinking? Nah, I'd say the people who work the hardest is the winners.

And one more thing: AJ, do you believe in the Christian god or in some other god?

People really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people.

I'm with AJ on this one! I'm a Christian and Christians believe that God created the world/universe. Ultimately God is all powerful/all knowing/omniscient. He created us but also gave us free will to do as we please (which is displayed by all the wierd and wonderful things which occur in this world)

If God wantwed, He could turn around and make every single living source turn around and worship Him. But he doesn't because what would you prefer? A nation that worships you because you frce them to, or a nation that worships you because they choose to? The latter is definately more rewarding.

And as for the question who created God.......God was always....He wasn't created. He is the Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. Its not the human way of thinking that God was always there but thats just the matter. God isn't a regular human being like you and me. We have to have a higher level of understanding

And people shouldnt say that people's non-religious beliefs is pathetic and insane either.

So... Christian... that means you follow the bible, right.. well I got some questions to you guys!

In Leviticus, it is said that God will appreciate the smell of when I burn a bull on the altar. The problem is my neighbours, they say that they dont like the smell. What should I do?

I would like to sell my daughter as a slave, just like its said in Exodus. What price do you think would be reasonable?

I know I cant have any contact with a woman during her menstruation since she is dirty under that period (Leviticus). But the problem is, how do I know? Ive tried to ask the girls, but they mostly dont like it. A real problem.

In Leviticus it is said that I can buy slaves from the broading nations. A friend of mine says that only Denmark counts and not Norway since im living in south Sweden. Could anyone help me with that?

I have this friend who works on Sundays. In Exodus, it is said loud and clear that I should kill him. Am I moraly forced to kill him?

In Leviticus we get to know that we shouldnt eat animals with shells, like lobsters and so on. I hope you dont do that.

In Leviticus it is said that I am not allowed to get close to the altar if I got problems with my eyes. Well, once I saw a priest with glasses. Does his eyes need to be totally perfect or could we stretch the rules a bit here?

"And as for the question who created God.......God was always....He wasn't created. "

Yeah. Thats great logic. AJ said that the world couldnt create itself, but God was always? Ehe.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Lerkot

[Da Brakes]

And people shouldnt say that people's non-religious beliefs is pathetic and insane either.

So... Christian... that means you follow the bible, right.. well I got some questions to you guys!

In Leviticus, it is said that God will appreciate the smell of when I burn a bull on the altar. The problem is my neighbours, they say that they dont like the smell. What should I do?

I would like to sell my daughter as a slave, just like its said in Exodus. What price do you think would be reasonable?

I know I cant have any contact with a woman during her menstruation since she is dirty under that period (Leviticus). But the problem is, how do I know? Ive tried to ask the girls, but they mostly dont like it. A real problem.

In Leviticus it is said that I can buy slaves from the broading nations. A friend of mine says that only Denmark counts and not Norway since im living in south Sweden. Could anyone help me with that?

I have this friend who works on Sundays. In Exodus, it is said loud and clear that I should kill him. Am I moraly forced to kill him?

In Leviticus we get to know that we shouldnt eat animals with shells, like lobsters and so on. I hope you dont do that.

In Leviticus it is said that I am not allowed to get close to the altar if I got problems with my eyes. Well, once I saw a priest with glasses. Does his eyes need to be totally perfect or could we stretch the rules a bit here?

"And as for the question who created God.......God was always....He wasn't created. "

Yeah. Thats great logic. AJ said that the world couldnt create itself, but God was always? Ehe.

Firstly, If you take the time to read my post again Lerkot you'll see that I said "People really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people." I didn't specifically call you out. It didn't say "Lerkot really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people." So chill on that one. I was talking about AJ as well.

Secondly, all the things you were trying to make a point about all happened within the first three books of the Bible. If you'd of done your research properly, you'd know that we are no longer under the law of Moses according to Christians, but we are under the last will and testiment of Jesus Christ (Everything in the new testement). So I would have like to have this discussion with you but your around 2000 years too late!!! :lolsign:

Thirdly, as for your last comment, again if you re read my post your snide little question would have answered it self. You cannot think in the natural when wondering how God was created. We do not fully understand Him and the way He works. All we know was that He was always there. Expand your mind Lerkot.

[Lerkot]

Expand my mind? Should I expand my mind by saying "God has always been with us and he is so great and the have always been here" and so on, instead of saying "I dont know how the world was created, but I know it had logic reasons, with nasty old guy creating two humans whose children had sex with eachother". God is the biggest lie ever made. The whole thing about God probably came up by some young boy asking his father "Father, how was the world created?" and the father made some lie since he didnt know.

[rawad_m]

:sipread: :paperbag:

[rawad_m]

After heavy thought on whether to continue posting in this thread, becasue I know it's going to be a long one :), here's my take on some of the subjects discussed :chuks:

Life doesn't create itself.

"Naw, but the laws of physics can create life."

But how were the laws of physics created? they'd need a creator :shrug: ..you can then throw the argument back at me by saying who created the creator, and then who created the creator of the creator and so on :lolsign: , but that argument sort of, I dont know how to put in words, doesn't seem right to me because it would go on and on into infinity you know what i mean? At some point would their not have had to be an original God/creaor figure whatever you want to call him/it :chuks:

I don't think so there's always been a war happening at some place during a particular time in human history..I think there are some leaders of today and the recent the past, mostly socialists who have admirable ambitions for such a society but it hardly works out in practice

So you don't think environment doesn't play a part in the creation of a persons psyche?

I don;t understand exactly what you mean there.I beleive that environment plays some part in a persons psyche, of course it would, but isen't that what differentiates humans from lower mammals, we don't just have insticinctive reactions..

And people shouldnt say that people's non-religious beliefs is pathetic and insane either.

So... Christian... that means you follow the bible, right.. well I got some questions to you guys!

In Leviticus, it is said that God will appreciate the smell of when I burn a bull on the altar. The problem is my neighbours, they say that they dont like the smell. What should I do?

I would like to sell my daughter as a slave, just like its said in Exodus. What price do you think would be reasonable?

I know I cant have any contact with a woman during her menstruation since she is dirty under that period (Leviticus). But the problem is, how do I know? Ive tried to ask the girls, but they mostly dont like it. A real problem.

In Leviticus it is said that I can buy slaves from the broading nations. A friend of mine says that only Denmark counts and not Norway since im living in south Sweden. Could anyone help me with that?

I have this friend who works on Sundays. In Exodus, it is said loud and clear that I should kill him. Am I moraly forced to kill him?

In Leviticus we get to know that we shouldnt eat animals with shells, like lobsters and so on. I hope you dont do that.

In Leviticus it is said that I am not allowed to get close to the altar if I got problems with my eyes. Well, once I saw a priest with glasses. Does his eyes need to be totally perfect or could we stretch the rules a bit here?

"And as for the question who created God.......God was always....He wasn't created. "

Yeah. Thats great logic. AJ said that the world couldnt create itself, but God was always? Ehe.

Firstly, If you take the time to read my post again Lerkot you'll see that I said "People really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people." I didn't specifically call you out. It didn't say "Lerkot really shouldn't call peoples religious beliefs/beliefs pathetic and insane! You could offend alot of people." So chill on that one. I was talking about AJ as well.

Secondly, all the things you were trying to make a point about all happened within the first three books of the Bible. If you'd of done your research properly, you'd know that we are no longer under the law of Moses according to Christians, but we are under the last will and testiment of Jesus Christ (Everything in the new testement). So I would have like to have this discussion with you but your around 2000 years too late!!! :lolsign:

Thirdly, as for your last comment, again if you re read my post your snide little question would have answered it self. You cannot think in the natural when wondering how God was created. We do not fully understand Him and the way He works. All we know was that He was always there. Expand your mind Lerkot.

Expand my mind? Should I expand my mind by saying "God has always been with us and he is so great and the have always been here" and so on, instead of saying "I dont know how the world was created, but I know it had logic reasons, with nasty old guy creating two humans whose children had sex with eachother". God is the biggest lie ever made. The whole thing about God probably came up by some young boy asking his father "Father, how was the world created?" and the father made some lie since he didnt know.

Some of that stuff that your talking about lerkot earlier happened thousands of years ago, societies back then were tribal, you cant compare it.

Edited October 28, 2005 by rawad_m

[JumpinJack AJ]

I'm not hear 2 defend myself or 2 attack anyone else. I've said what i have 2 say and i'm not wasting my time pushing my point of view any further. Faith is about believeing in what u don't actually see. Nobody waz around when everything waz created so it's stupid 2 fight over this stuff. I knew this post waz gonna go this way...and all i have 2 say is what i said in my 1st post. Nuff said.

[rawad_m]

Faith is about believeing in what u don't actually see. Nobody waz around when everything waz created so it's stupid 2 fight over this stuff.

:word:

[Da Brakes]

God is the biggest lie ever made. The whole thing about God probably came up by some young boy asking his father "Father, how was the world created?" and the father made some lie since he didnt know.

Ok, thats your beliefs and thats cool. But all I ask is that you respect other peoples beliefs and views, and not to belittle them because you think its all a 'lie'.

[Schnazz]

God is the biggest lie ever made. The whole thing about God probably came up by some young boy asking his father "Father, how was the world created?" and the father made some lie since he didnt know.

I agree with ya, but something you may want to consider. Religion plays a very important roll in peoples lives. I gives them comfort, a reason for going on, something to believe in, and hope. Do you really want to try to take these things away from people, just so that they can stop believing in a "lie" ?

[Schnazz]

Life doesn't create itself.

"Naw, but the laws of physics can create life."

But how were the laws of physics created? they'd need a creator :shrug: ..you can then throw the argument back at me by saying who created the creator, and then who created the creator of the creator and so on :lolsign: , but that argument sort of, I dont know how to put in words, doesn't seem right to me because it would go on and on into infinity you know what i mean? At some point would their not have had to be an original God/creaor figure whatever you want to call him/it :chuks:

I agree, the universe and how it works does seem to need a creator, I was just trying to point out that something besides a creator can make life itself. (the evolution v ID thread was bleeding over to this one : )

But if you want to argue that God/the creator always is and always was, why can't the laws of the universe always have existed? Or perhaps, if we where ever to find out what caused the existance of the universe, then it would be perfectly clear how everything came about...

Perhaps the universe was created on a bet, to see if it could be done. Maybe the universe was designed for the express purpose of creating intelligence. Researchers now would like to create artificial intelligence, among other reasons, to evolve something more intelligent than people so that it can answer questions we can't. Maybe our universe is the same way. Maybe there's even bigger questions out there to be answered, and our creators are limited, so they created our universe to specifically grow us, so we can evolve beyond them.

I don't think so there's always been a war happening at some place during a particular time in human history..I think there are some leaders of today and the recent the past, mostly socialists who have admirable ambitions for such a society but it hardly works out in practice

So you don't think environment doesn't play a part in the creation of a persons psyche?

I don;t understand exactly what you mean there.I beleive that environment plays some part in a persons psyche, of course it would, but isen't that what differentiates humans from lower mammals, we don't just have insticinctive reactions..

What I was getting at was that you say that there's always been wars, implying that people evil people aren't avoidable. But, depending on the part environment plays, perhaps we could fix that. If we could get our environment right (that is, people raised properly, what ever that would mean), then wouldn't that help reduce war, even eliminate it? Wouldn't that lead to a utopian society? (if other things where done as well, such as limitless goods, and other, currently fanciful, things)

[rawad_m]

"I agree, the universe and how it works does seem to need a creator, I was just trying to point out that something besides a creator can make life itself. (the evolution v ID thread was bleeding over to this one : )

But if you want to argue that God/the creator always is and always was, why can't the laws of the universe always have existed? Or perhaps, if we where ever to find out what caused the existance of the universe, then it would be perfectly clear how everything came about... "

perhaps, perhaps :)

"Perhaps the universe was created on a bet, to see if it could be done. Maybe the universe was designed for the express purpose of creating intelligence. Researchers now would like to create artificial intelligence, among other reasons, to evolve something more intelligent than people so that it can answer questions we can't. Maybe our universe is the same way. Maybe there's even bigger questions out there to be answered, and our creators are limited, so they created our universe to specifically grow us, so we can evolve beyond them."

In my opinion you will never be able to form artificial intelligence, there's a gigantic leap from just computer processes to be able to "think" (unless u think that's an illusion which i think u dolol),

What I was getting at was that you say that there's always been wars, implying that people evil people aren't avoidable. But, depending on the part environment plays, perhaps we could fix that. If we could get our environment right (that is, people raised properly, what ever that would mean), then wouldn't that help reduce war, even eliminate it? Wouldn't that lead to a utopian society? (if other things where done as well, such as limitless goods, and other, currently fanciful, things)

Well theoretically it's possible, but what enviroment could that be? how would it ever be achieved? People have always tried to make utopian societies, the link i gave earlier was to hugo chavez, like i said i admire him, a great deal really, because i think he's one of the few leaders in power who have a genuine motive to make an ideal socieaty, but their is opposition to him and although it's a minority it's a significant one..I just son't get it..

but once again in theiry i think what u said could be true, but the only way you are going to have that is a world dictatorship!

:lolsign:

ps i seriously don't know how to quote

Edited October 28, 2005 by rawad_m