StorCard

[Etherspinner]

i still maintain its too little and too soon.. we're still using cds.. even when we buy music online in the form of mp3s its not up to the standard of a cd track.. and how long have they been around... the next jump would be better made when they can get a season of a tv show onto a single disc in high def.

[Da Brakes]

But your talking about CD's and DVD's they're too different formats! This new format war is to determin the successor to DVD's not CD's

[Etherspinner]

yeah i know cds have no connection to dvds other than being an optical disc for media.

dvd is a widely accepted format now.. people were quick to adopt due to an obvious and big difference to the previous VHS format.

given the high res nature of hd media i think that soon enough another format will come round bout two or three years after blu/hd dvd, what im saying is.. ppl will be pissed at updating their content every 3-4 years .. if they brought out a disc format with capacity over 100gb the quality difference might even have some effect on the trend of people going straight to bittorrent for their movies

[MaxFly]

Well, I think the next jump is really to just get a season of a television show onto one HD-DVD/Blu Ray disc. I think we would be skipping a couple of steps in trying to get HD video onto one disc. A portable 300 gb holographic disc, though ideal, is going to be expensive when it comes out, and as exciting as it may be, it's going to take some time for the price to come down and for consumers to feel comfortable with it. From a marketing standpoint, Blu Ray and/or HD-DVD are a better bet for the near future. Also, blank HD-DVDs/Blu Rays should be a hit as people are always looking for more space to store their files, home made movies or what have you. I think the concern would be that while it would take the 4 or 5 years for holographic data storage to be fully developed and for prices to drop to a point where it would be a viable option, we'll still be using DVDs in the meantime.

I think that holographic technology should be explored more as a permananent replacement for HDDs, and then as that blooms, introduce removable holographic memory cards and the like.

[Etherspinner]

i really should find out the length of footage you can fit on a hd/blu disc but im sure ive read its only slightly over what you get on a dvd disc at dvd quality .. so no box sets..

depends if they manage to up the specs of either of the formats before release

[MaxFly]

I believe that Blu-Ray can hold up to 27 gigs single layered... 54 gigs double layered.

HD-DVD can hold about 15 gigs single layered and 30 gigs double layered.

The Blu-Ray should be enough to hold 10+ hours of non HD video and the HD-DVD may be able to do so as well...

That's the entire season for most sitcoms. Our favorite hour long shows would probably take 2 discs...

[Etherspinner]

yes..thats how much dvd format stuff it can hold,but they are trying to sell us on the quality of hd and get us viewing it on a HDTV so what would be the point of having a series in dvd format if we've updated both our tv and optical disc player.. im sure that in hd mode the disc can only hold the same running time as a dvd can of its breed of footage.. so we'll still be buying season boxsets with 8 discs.

sure enough..

perhaps i should add.. i have an irrational fear of clutter so my views on the practicality of boxsets are very skewed !!

[MaxFly]

The preponderance of video now and for the next couple of years will continue to be released in DVD video quality with the exception of those shows that are currently being presented in HD. In essence, what will happen is that all of the old sitcom and drama shows will probably be released on both DVDs and single discs of whichever format wins.

You make a good point though. The upgrade in format will simply serve to perpetuate the status quo in terms of multiple discs in boxsets.

But we've reached a dilemma...

If the industry were to take the development of Blu Ray and HD-DVD off of the table and focus solely on holographic media, for the next 3-5 years, shows released in normal DVD quality would continue to be released in large boxsets. In addition, no shows or movies would be released to disc in HD quality.

The problem would be that we would be stuck with large boxsets for the time being and those shows or movies that would have been released in HD on Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs will instead continue to be released in regular DVD quality while we're waiting for holographic discs to hit the maket.

[MaxFly]

Holographic Video Storage

by Vic Ferri

If you are impressed by the holding capacity of 4.7 gigs for a single sided DVD disk, then you "ain't seen nothing yet". Last spring, at the National Association of Broadcasters show in Las Vegas, InPhase Technologies, (related to Lucent Technologies), unveiled Tapestry—a breakthrough 3D holographic video storage system...a video recorder that records and stores video data as holograms on disks.

Just one of these disks can hold 100 gigabytes of video. You would need more than 20 of todays DVDs to equal the storage capacity of just one of these special disks, and that's just for starters. According to the developers, future disks for the system will be able to store 1.3 terabytes or more. One terabyte is equal to 1024 gigabytes or the equivalent of about 200 compressed dvd movies.

The idea of using holography for storage isn't new. The potential has been known for several years, but the stumbling block has always been the unavailablity of an ideal and viable recording material for the disks. In previous experiments with holographic recording, overly expensive and problematic mediums were being used that had poor transfer rates and no commercial potential.

The ideal material had to be extremely photosensitive, thermally stable, and affordable. And this is exactly what InPhase Technologies succeeded in developing—a special two chemical polymer material that is both highly photosensitive and stable at high heat levels, as well as cheaper than the old materials that were being used before.

This new polymer is not only remarkable for its storage capacity—just a postage stamp size of it can store 2 gigabytes—but for its speedy data transfer rate of 20 mbs—about 10 times faster than the top video storage devices available today. The high photosensitvity of the polymer is what makes them fast. And significant, as well, is the fact that these disks have been determined to have an archival life span of 50 years—higher than that of CDs and DVDs. It's no surprise that this medium is the current buzz among the top optical drive companies who are eager to test it to see if there are ways it can be used with their drives.

The Tapestry disks themselves are about the same size as a regular CD but that's where the similarity ends. These disks are enclosed in a cartridge, are non reflective, transparent, (see image below) and they do not spin.

A main reason these disks can hold so much more information is that the entire thickness of the disk is penetrated (written to). With a conventional CD-DVD, only the surface is burned. Think of it as the difference between two dimensional and three dimensional.

The way this holographic storage device records is by splitting the laser into two beams. One beam, called the signal beam, holds the encoded data and when the other beam, called the reference beam, crosses it at precise angles, a hologram of the data is created which is then recorded on to the disk. This is a very simplistic explanation. If you'd like a little more detailed description, see the following link, where you can also see an illustration of the process:

http://www.inphase-technologies.com/techno...mages/tour1.gif

InPhase plans to have Tapestry in the market by 2004, but it's not being geared towards the consumer market and it will be quite expensive. The first units are expected to sell for anywhere between 7 and 10 thousand dollars. However, like any new technology, prices should gradually drop if this takes off. Right now, the market focus of Tapestry is commercial—professional video editors, digital movie companies and the like. It will also be pushed towards companies that have massive storage needs and need quick access to it.

According to Inphase Business Development VP, Slip Kilsdonk, "This is the future of content distribution. In 10 to 15 years, holographic storage will replace just about every application that uses other existing technologies."

If that prediction comes true, then a DVD, in the not so distant future, may be no more impressive in its holding capacity than a 1.44 mb floppy disk is today.

We shall see.

[Etherspinner]

dude... check the link on previous page.. "disk tech" the discs are cd sized with 1.6tb and a transfer rate of 120megaBYTES per second. this is why i wish the industry would use something bigger cause blu-ray and HD are a jump in magnitude of 10 from dvd but there are existing disc technologies that are a FURTHER jump from HD in the magnitude of over 20 (blu-ray 50gb to 1.6tb holo discs)

[MaxFly]

I agree. It would be ideal for the industry to use holographic storage. The problem is that by all estimates, though media will be relatively affordable, the holographic media readers and subsequent readers/writers are going to be priced in the 1000s and 10s of thousands for the next couple of years. Television stations and other businesses that are in need of massive archiving have taken quite a bit of interest, but the technology won't be affordable to general consumers for some time. InPhase has a product called Tapestry that was supposed to come out in 2004 but was delayed. The cost of the unit was supposed to be between 7,000 to 10,000 dollars.

Unfortunately, HD content won't be released widescale on holographic discs or cards until the prices of the drives come down to a point where it is profitable for retailers to sell movies on holographic media. The technology is going to have to make its way through the private sector before it becomes marketable to general consumers.

It seems that the industry wants the immediate answer to increased removeable storage sizes and the demand for HD content on removeable media. Really, the companies are taking their time and letting this HD-DVD/Blu Ray fight continue. They want to milk DVDs for all they're worth before the format is upgraded. Both HD-DVD and Blu Ray could have come out as early as last year. I do wish holographic media would develop much quicker though.

[Etherspinner]

TRY THIS BLURAY AND HD!!

bwa haha die like betamax's forgotten stepbrother..

i wish.. theyll still push them out.. and HVD will be ready by december 2006.. grr

[MaxFly]

Lol, from the article...

"The holographic disk promises to retail for $100, and by 2010, it will have capacity of 1.6TB each. That's pretty inexpensive,"

The article is referring to Maxwells announcement of their holographic storage stystem. Holographic discs for consumer use will be cheap to make in bulk and the prices for those will be closer to around 5-10 dollars... The article should have made this clear... I don't think anyone who would go out to get their HVD of Mission Impossible 3 would be looking to pay 120 instead of the 20 that they would probably have to pay for their HD-DVD/Blu Ray. Holographic discs will be comparable in price to today's DVDs when the prices go down... in about 5 years.

Also, I've only seen the projected price for one drive. That was between 7,000 to 10,000 dollars. No one seems to be addressing the price for the hardware that will actually play the discs.

According to some people, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and the current format of Holographic storage should all be skipped entirely in favor of holographic optical storage that will exceed them all in capacity and speed.

http://colossalstorage.net/colossal1.htm

[Etherspinner]

i missed the 100 buck price mark.. good point man.. dont know if it would drop significantly or not..

all these articles tho lead to one thing, there are plenty of technologies out there superceding blu-ray and hd-dvd another point is that the hvd guys dont have industry muscle to support the initial production of the discs and players as do the blu and Hd camps

[MaxFly]

If the holographic storage guys could market this technology as more of a replacement for internal hard drives (which I think it will eventually become) they can gain a lot of momentum. Their marketing of removeable media for the time being should be focussed more on the archiving sector where things need to be moved around, stored, and easily accessed when neccesary. I think that with the general consumer market, a reliable hard drive replacement would get things moving. If removeable discs about as thick as CDs and DVDs can hold terabytes of information, think of what a drive with internal media space about half as thick as today's conventional hard drives could hold. As with removeable holographic storage, the obstacle that would have to be overcome would be the hardware expense or more specifically, the cost of the media reader. This could be buffered by the already expensive cost of high end hard drives. But hard drives could be smaller (physically) and larger (storage wise) helping to push the technology. As the technology gains a foothold in the market, the movie industry should gain more of an interest, especially as the readers and the media become cheaper and improved. By that time, perhaps 7 years, we could totally do away with discs. Movies could be stored on cards half the size of a credit card (disks won't be necessary since the holographic media doesn't need to rotate).

The main problem is time. The studios badly want to release HD video on disc to the public as soon as possible, all while trying their best to squeeze as much money as possible out of DVDs. Blu Ray and HD-DVD could have both come out last year. The problem that would arise with removeable holographic storage is that it would take a couple of years to come down in price enough to to be viable. HD-DVD and Blu Ray are already low enough in price to be the immediate solution (though only a temporary solution).