bigted Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) I think Will once said that in one of his interviews that people don't liked to be preached to when they go to shows, don't forget that hip-hop is entertainment most importantly, it's not a religion, even I don't want to hear every rapper just make songs about the war and all the problems of the world all the time, sometimes I wanna hear something that'll just make me nod my head.... Most people in the general public think conscious hip-hop is boring, if we banned 50 and Ja Rule and just had PE and Arrested Delevopment, not many people would be exposed to hip-hop anymore which is something that I don't know I'd want to happen, I think those who truely love hip-hop will wanna learn the history gradually so if they're introduced by 50 Cent and then discover Run-Dmc later on I have no problems, it's just like those who got introduced to hip-hop by Vanilla Ice probably started to check for more talented mcs gradually but if it wasn't for Vanilla Ice they wouldn't know hip-hop so if you think about it you can't be mad at Vanilla Ice either, a lot of kids wouldn't know hip-hop if it wasn't introduced to them, gradually if they really got love for hip-hop they'll look into it more.... There's definately a lot of wack songs on the radio now but I put my energy to download music on the comp, buy mixtapes, and play my CDs and I'm happy, if you don't like what they play on the radio, don't listen.... You or me can't really speak for everyone's opinion though, you say that all hip-hop heads don't listen to 50 Cent and Ja Rule, I'm sure a lot of people who have LL Cool J and Will Smith CDs in their collection also have Ja Rule and 50 Cent CDs in their collection too including me, I own some of their earlier albums, so that means I ain't a hip-hop head to you right? I post on an underground hip-hop site and there's lot of them who like mainstream and underground rappers,not just underground/ol' school rappers like maybe you'd think... I don't think Ja Rule and 50 Cent are the greatest lyricists in the world but they definately got some skills and they express what's on their minds as artists, Mary J. collabed with both of them before if I'm not mistaken, I don't think the queen of hip-hop soul would work with somebody who's talentless, right? Treach of Naughty By Nature said in interviews before that he likes both of them, I don't think he'd say he likes them if he thought they were talentless, Mary J. and Treach hold more credability than you when it comes to opinions, I don't like Eminem but he definately has to have some talent if legends like Rakim and KRS say they like him right? Now that doesn't mean I'll say Eminem, Ja, and 50 are my favorites but I ain't gonna call them talentless, if my favorite mcs could be open minded, why can't I be open minded? ... If they're so talentless why don't you put your energy into making a CD that's better than theirs instead of sitting there and complaining so much? Put your energy expressing who you do like instead of bashing who you don't like so damn much!!! You could think Nelly, 50, Ja Rule and them ain't hip-hop all you want, I could care less but you can't expect everyone to feel that way like you, every hip-hop fan has their own opinion, we're not programmed to all like the same artists, that's what makes it unique, celebrate what you do like, and don't put so much energy into what you don't like Did you buy Public Enemy's album "New Whirl Odor" that came out months ago? I hear so many people out there complaining about how wack the rap scene is but yet they let their kids listen to 50 Cent and they don't buy the new Public Enemy album, if fans would put energy into what they do like instead of hating, we won't have no problems in hip-hop right now, that's why I like that Will mentioned in the song how Rakim and Lauryn Hill are putting it down the most instead of saying that specifically who's lost, that'd cause more hate, take a lesson from your favorite mc man, you focus on the positivity of the game, not the negativity, Will's intent of making the song "Lost and Found" was not just to bash mcs that use their talent to waste but to inspire them to use their talents in a more positive way, now I think definately if 50 is a friend of Will's like Will says he is, he should take that advice and use his talents in a more positive way instead of putting down other brothers so much.... The sad thing is though you see people react more to negativity than positivity, if he dissed Rakim, Rakim would respond right away and diss back, but Will gives Rakim props but yet Rakim don't say thank you for the compliment, that's what's wrong with the rap game right now, if enough high quality artists rallied around Will I think there could be a change for the better with more diversity to the game, I'm sick of hearing rappers always complaining about how wack hip-hop is now but yet they don't put that same energy into supporting the new albums that Will and Public Enemy put out, I'm tired of hearing every rapper beefing with each other, there should be more love instead of division, hip-hop is gonna gradually lose popularity because we're so divided right now... Edited February 8, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpinJack AJ Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 I can't understand why so many of u are saying that what's "hot" is what Hip-Hop is or must be. Hip-Hop music is based off Hip-Hop culture...off the lifestyle. Not the charts. If u think Ja-Rule and 50 Cent are representing that, that's your thing. If u think Hip-Hop is drugs, ho's, money, and being hard...then maybe u've never been exposed 2 it or educated on it. Sure, some people live that lifestyle...but these cats selling millions of records aren't. And why would an incredible Hip-Hop artist like Mary J. Blige work with lowlifes like 50 Cent. Because the music business is both music and business. Record labels and producers pull that stuff 2gether half the time. That's why many artsits getting interviewed can't say 2 much about the other artists' career...cuz they simply aren't truly fans of their music in the 1st place. Hip-Hop is life...your around the way brother writing rhymes every night in his bedroom isn't anymore or less Hip-Hop then a legend like Rakim. There's a million cats who love this thing called Hip-Hop and who are doing it without the fame or the big money. Joe, u said u've never heard of Arrested Development. U can buy Eminem's and Ja-Rule's albums all u want. But Arrested Development waz on top of the charts and winning Grammies years b4 those 2 even recorded their 1st rhyme. After AD took a break, they desided 2 keep things indie cuz the music business is a joke. By saying u've never heard of Arrested Development, u have just shown your limited knowlege on Hip-Hop. I'm not knocking u at all, but how can u say Ja-Rule is Hip-Hop if u haven't even heard the real thing. I know about real Hip-Hop...i know about old school...and i know about this new commercial trash polluting the airwaves. Take it 4 what it is. But don't defend the trash until u hear the gems or get a taste of Hip-Hop culture yourself. I'm not the only one who feels this way....i'm just the only willing 2 jump in the ring. Those who i've talked 2 outside of the board should step up for what they believe in...but even if they don't, i've done it 4 them. Bigted, i always respect your opinion on Hip-Hop...what happened. I'm not the only one on this board scratching my head. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Damn AJ I didn't know you could still post in this topic since I locked it up already 'cause to me it's obvious that none of our opinions are gonna change, we like who we like, I'm trying to keep the peace here, I realise some cats here like Eminem, Puffy, 50 Cent, and Jay-Z, etc. even though I don't that much so I don't try to bash them so hard even though I won't listen to them myself, see my view didn't change but for me to constantly show it down someone's throat how much I think 50 sucks ain't gonna stop them from like him so what's the point of doing that, tell it to me? I try keepin' that to myself and show love to my favorites like LL, Public Enemy, KRS, Nas, etc, at the end of the day we're all JJFP fans here though that's the only thing we might have in common, a lot of us like different artists... I think dissing who's we feel is wack ain't gonna solve anything, show love to who you do like and leave it at that, everybody gotta chill... :davidblaine: I don't feel like tellin' how much Eminem sucks to somebody who likes him, it's corny, 'cause I don't like it when people tell me Will sucks, I try to look more at both sides of the fence, it ain't fun to constantly beef, life's too short... I'm done posting here in this topic now, I don't wanna repeat myself anymore, I'll let you have the last say if you want, peace!... Edited February 9, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bart5 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Damn AJ I didn't know you could still post in this topic since I locked it up already 'cause to me it's obvious that none of our opinions are gonna change, we like who we like, I'm trying to keep the peace here, I realise some cats here like Eminem, Puffy, 50 Cent, and Jay-Z, etc. even though I don't that much so I don't try to bash them so hard even though I won't listen to them myself, see my view didn't change but for me to constantly show it down someone's throat how much I think 50 sucks ain't gonna stop them from like him so what's the point of doing that, tell it to me? I try keepin' that to myself and show love to my favorites like LL, Public Enemy, KRS, Nas, etc, at the end of the day we're all JJFP fans here though that's the only thing we might have in common, a lot of us like different artists... I think dissing who's we feel is wack ain't gonna solve anything, show love to who you do like and leave it at that, everybody gotta chill... :davidblaine: I don't feel like tellin' how much Eminem sucks to somebody who likes him, it's corny, 'cause I don't like it when people tell me Will sucks, I try to look more at both sides of the fence, it ain't fun to constantly beef, life's too short... I'm done posting here in this topic now, I don't wanna repeat myself anymore, I'll let you have the last say if you want, peace!... :word: I know what you mean. Just today in school, I was sittin in class taking notes, and listening to Willenium on my mp3 player. My friend that sits behind me asked me who I was listening to. I turned around and told him Will Smith. He was surprised and said "ouch." Then a dude that sits next to me asked "Big Willie Style?" "No, but I have that cd." "His new cd?" "No, but I have that cd too." I felt a lil embarassed but I am glad I stood up for Will. I could care less about what anyone else thinks of WS, cause all that matter is that I love listenin to his music. Point being, you shouldn't diss other dude's favorite artists just because you think they are wack. It doesn't feel good when other people diss your favorite artists, thats for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozmo D Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 OK, I have a minnit so I'm gonna try and lay this down for you all. Now, of course, everybody is gonna have their own opinion but I can GUARANTEE you that what I'm going to point out would be agreed with by EVERY Tru Skooler who was down when Hip-Hop was birthed. First of all, Hip-Hop is publicly recognized as a culture and as having 4 elements, as mentioned earlier. However, the reason that peeps struggle so much with trying to define it is because it is INFINITELY more than that. What is more, none of those elements are automatically Hip-Hop either. There is Rap that is not Hip-Hop, there have ALWAYS been graffiti writers who have nothing to do with Hip-Hop, same thing for DJs. I used to consider breaking exclusively Hip-Hop until one day when I was watching some vintage episodes of the Ed Sullivan show and they had on this latin dance group. These cats were bustin windmills and freezes...in the '60s! Wasn't no such thing as Hip-Hop yet! Hip-Hop is more than a culture, it's a mindset. It's cultural aspects are endless! Hip-Hop is about self-empowerment, originality, creativity, competitiveness and defiance! You don't have to have ALL of these attributes to be Hip-Hop, but you can't be the OPPOSITE of any of them either! There are many other aspects but those are a few of the main ones. The only aspect that is a universal pre-requisite of being Hip-Hop is understanding "street" culture, wherever that "street" may be. So, saying that, you can see that it would be ridiculously useless to include things in Hip-Hop just because it has an attribute or 2, however you can clearly EXCLUDE things from being Hip-Hop because they are OPPOSITE to certain attributes. This brings me to the current Rap scene. It is simple to go artist by artist and pick out who is NOT Hip-Hop. All you have to do is pick out those who are intentionally NOT creative or original! This excludes groups like G-Unit and Dip Set right off the bat! Boring rhymes, boring styles, every record sounds like the last and they all sound like each other... THAT SH!T AINT HIP-HOP!!! That aint nothin but Pop Rap! Hip-Hop has extremely few rules. In fact, many people who were not down from the jump may think that it doesn't have any. However, it does have one golden rule that is just as vital now as it was in the very beginning... thou shalt not biteth the style of thy neighbour... NO STYLE BITIN ALLOWED!!! You could steal a rhyme, back in the day peeps stole rhymes all the time, but if you bit somebody's style you were considered WACK, and were likely to catch a beatdown! To confirm this all you have to do is think of the first 10 - 15 years or so of Hip-Hop on the radio, no 2 groups or acts sounded alike. Now, it sounds like half of them are modeling themselves after the other half. Of course, the main reason that is is because of the majors and Clear Channel and Viacom. They are the ones who decide who gets signed and who gets on the radio and gets their video shown. They are all about big business modeling and marketing, so whatever they find that works they emulate and mass produce. It's the classic technique invented by Henry Ford and it's been working for 100 years now. Doesn't change anything though, it ain't Hip-Hop. Remember back when 50 dropped "How To Rob The Industry"? Now, THAT was Hip-Hop! He was hitting with an idea and subject matter that nobody else had done. These days everything he does is the same 'ol same 'ol. Same 'ol rhymes, same 'ol style, same 'ol subject matter. That ain't Hip-Hop. Now, I haven't been checkin for Ja Rule for some time, so I wont speak on him, but Nelly IS Hip-Hop! Nelly doesn't try to sound like anybody else (though you can tell that he went to school on Montel Jordan who in turn went to school on Domino), and he is often trying new ideas. He doesn't have to be good and you don't have to like him. He doesn't have to rap about his life or things he knows about (Ol Skool Hip-Hop is FULL of lies, we were ALL lying). Nelly is trying to do HIS thing, HIS way, with a street feel at it's core. That's Hip-Hop. Some last quickies... Rap is simply rhyming on a mic. It comes from Hip-Hop but it doesn't have to be Hip-Hop. I don't know where the record deal requisite thing comes from either. If you don't have a deal you aren't a rap artist? So what are you when you're shopping for a deal? Do you stop being a rap artist when the deal is over? That makes no sense at all. :hmm: As to the question of where Hip-Hop music comes from, as in what music was it born out of. Hip-Hop music was not developed from any particular music genres, it was developed first from the way we played the music in the street, and then from how we created it in the studio. We used all kinds of records in the street, Funk, Jazz, Disco, Rock, Soul, if we could find a way to move the crowd with it, we used it. OK... any questions? :wiggle: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-o-e Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yeh that was lay to long dude, I mean I knew Ted did long posts but DAMN MAN....lol..I know the origin of hip hop itself. I have respect for old school hip hop, that's what made the rappers now rap.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozmo D Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yeh that was lay to long dude, I mean I knew Ted did long posts but DAMN MAN....lol..I know the origin of hip hop itself. I have respect for old school hip hop, that's what made the rappers now rap.... Just trying to add a little education to all of the misinformation in this thread. After all, I believe it was you that said :without the nelly's 50 cent's ja rule's etc, hip hop wouldn't be where it is today, if rapping is a form of hip hop then Ja rule is hip hop, simple. Hip-Hop can and would do fine without ANY of them! :1-smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-o-e Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yeh but the artists are loved, part from ja rule, but some like him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerkot Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Yeh but the artists are loved, part from ja rule, but some like him... How does that have to do with anything? When talking about hiphop btw, I'm gonna make a speech about hiphop in my English class.. everyone is going to make a speech about somethin and since some other guys also chose hiphop, I thought it was necessarily to give all the people the real version, which is gonna be pretty much apart from what my friends are doing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-o-e Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Lerkie Lerkie Lerkie.... Look how much promation 50 cent and the game beef got...that gives props to hip hop, as much as u hate it, as much as they grow, hip hop will grow...for the worse or for the better, we will have to see that's the beauty in hip hop...anything can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerkot Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Lerkie Lerkie Lerkie.... Look how much promation 50 cent and the game beef got...that gives props to hip hop, as much as u hate it, as much as they grow, hip hop will grow...for the worse or for the better, we will have to see that's the beauty in hip hop...anything can happen Whatever 50 Cent and The Game does, it doesnt give hiphop anything more than bad reputation and thats crazy, cause 50 and Game arent really connected to hiphop at all. Of course if they grow, rap will grow, grow DOWN! Both the mainstream rap that you can hear on the radio and the underground **** would do just fine without 50 and Game. It did fine in 1997 when no-one even knew those kids existed. Edited February 9, 2006 by Lerkot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_bigmac Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 i prefer hip hop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozmo D Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Lerkie Lerkie Lerkie.... Look how much promation 50 cent and the game beef got...that gives props to hip hop, as much as u hate it, as much as they grow, hip hop will grow...for the worse or for the better, we will have to see that's the beauty in hip hop...anything can happen They are not Hip-Hop! No matter how much you or the media call them that doesn't make it so. Mel Brooks and Rich Little made Rap records too, didn't make them Hip-Hop either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigted Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Well a lot of people look at the Game and 50 beef as a negative part of hip-hop 'cause it's more personal than just battlin' on the mic, you have a shooting outside a radio station building and now we got Busta's bodyguard being shot, even with Ja Rule and 50 they're beef is deeper than just music and it shouldn't be like that, they should learn from what happened to Pac and Biggie and not make things so personal, I remember you saying before that Pac and Biggie died for hip-hop, that's ignorant talk, you ain't supposed to die for hip-hop, you're supposed to live for hip-hop, Pac and Biggie should've mended their ways but it was too late, these artists that're alive now that're beefin' should do it while they're still here 'cause you never know what might happen, Pac vs. Biggie and 50 vs. Game are not hip-hop battles on the mic but rap wars on the streets which is horrible, you have people killing each other over it, I like that Game was trying to make it hip-hop by making mixtape songs against 50 but now I heard he got a DVD out now where he goes and destroys stuff on 50's property, that ain't hip-hop, that's stupid, yeah you could say 50's wack but you don't have to go that far, that could lead to violence... If you're gonna battle it should be like LL vs. Canibus or KRS vs. Shan where it's just beef over lyrical skills, you see Jay and Nas battle and now they're coming together, you didn't hear about LL going on Canibus' crib and steal stuff from him, lol, he just ripped him on songs and left it at that, that's hip-hop.... I could defend the part of saying that without these mainstream cats out now not many would be familiar with hip-hop... I just can't defend this point though of saying that Game and 50 beef is good for hip-hop, is just ain't and this ain't me saying this to diss them I'm just givin' real talk here, this makes hip-hop look bad, now if it was just battlin' on the mic I would have no problems but I think it's more of a negative way though, lots of people are talking about the negative things like this and ignore the positive things that rappers do, the media has really ruined hip-hop's image and the fans buy into it, the media saw this when Pac and Biggie had beef and they kept on feeding it to the public more and more, it wasn't Pac and Biggie's fault though and now they're doing it with 50 and Game, history's repeating itself again, I pray no rapper gets killed over these silly street beefs 'cause if that happens I think a lot of positive mcs might get discouraged and stop recording and hip-hop'll die, they need to embrace the music more and leave the streetlife behind them, there's a better life out there that hip-hop provided them with and they shouldn't throw it away... This isn't all the artists fault either but they need to be more mature and responsible with millions watching them, all eyez are on hip-hop as the most popular genre... I have no problem with them expressing themselves but they have to be a lil' more responsible, I'm dissapointed that Busta ain't tellin' the cops about what happened in the shootin', he wants to keep it real to the streets by not snitching but hey what're the streets gonna do if that person stays out there and kills Busta or his family? You keep it real the most by being an honest person and doing the right thing to improve the community, not bring it down, this is like when nobody comes forward to tell who killed Pac or Biggie but somebody in this world knows but their families continue suffering without closure because everybody 'refuses to snitch' I'm dissapointed in Busta but I've been a lil' dissapointed in him ever since he jumped in the middle of the 50 Cent/Ja Rule beef, where he had no reason to be involved with, his whole career has been about bringing peace but now he's getting involved with this juvenile crap just so he could stay relevant and that's not real... I've talked to a lot of people and they're dissapointed in Busta, especially since he's from an older generation of hip-hop artists, he has this responsibility, he needs to step up and set an example, I'm sure if Will saw the person who killed somebody he'd tell someone... There's a bigger life than just the streets, hip-hop is bigger than just the streets but it seems like it's just staying in the gutter instead of exanding like it was originally planned, you could keep it real and run the streets all you want but that ain't a smart move if you wanna have a long successful life, I would like to see some hip-hop artists live a long life, they all shouldn't have to all be killed runnng the streets keepin' it real, that's dumb... Edited February 10, 2006 by bigted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaAce Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Hip Hop = 4 Elements (MC, DJ, B-Boys & Graph Writers) A Hip Hopper is one who represent the hip hop culture. (every true meaning of hip hop) Rap = A Branch Of Hip Hop A Rapper is one who rhymes in a hip hop rhythm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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