Do you think Will cares too much about sales?

[Turntable]

I dont think that song is focused on Gangsta Rap. I mean, stuff like that is going in in allot of Rap Videos. That isnt what Gangsta Rap is about Thats what you might think, when you whatch MTV and stuff, but thats not true Gangsta Rap. N.W.A., Outlawz etc. That is true Gangsta Rap. By the way, that line is a lil over the top.. Its not like the Videos he made for Lost & Found are pieces of art. Switch, Party Starter.. Champign bottles, check, lots of models, check.

He is a Rapper. Not a preacher. If he says he lovey Ready To Doe, than that isnt about PR. If he supports T.I., that isnt about PR. He say/does it caus he likes it. It`s not about Gangsta Rap alone.. It`s about the way certain parts of the whole Rap Industry are going, not just Gangsta Rap.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Turntable

[bigted]

I think the thing that Will was saying that the only way MTV and BET's gonna play a rap video is if it has throwback jerseys, rims, and a lot of models while they pass up playing rap videos that don't show that, that's probably why "Tell Me Why" video never came out either,he feels that if they only choose to play videos with that thug life image,it's hurting the public's perception of the rap game into thinking that all rappers are thugs but it's not like that, it's not 50's fault if MTV chooses play his videos all day and don't play The Roots' video much, these video networks must give all types of artist a chance to get their video played, that's sorta like what Jazzy mentioned too it's sorta bad if any songs or videos get overplayed when there's a lot that need to get out there,

I don't think Will has beef with gangsta rap, he got beef when gangsta rap is overexposed as the only image of rappers on a mainstream level, there's nothing wrong with somebody like NWA going platinum when there's also somebody like Run-Dmc going platinum, that's what made the golden era so great, there was all styles of rap getting recognised, there shouldn't be one style dominating more than another, at the same time if gangsta rap never came along rap wouldn't have much credibility if everyone was doing party songs...

But that wasn't happening for a while back in the mid-90s when Will decided not to rap for awhile, and like it was for the past couple years, but this year it's slowly turning around, nobody's really getting overplayed, there's not one or two rappers at the moment selling 10 million with everyone else not selling, the balance is coming around, yeah Young Jeezy went platinum but Kanye went platinum too, Young Joc went gold but so did LL Cool J, it's gonna take a while to get back to the golden era again but there's still some quality music out there like Busta, DMX, Outkast, LL, Ice Cube, Pharrell, etc. to show you that there's an alternative to other rappers like Lil' Kim, Young Joc, Lil' Wayne, and Rick Ross...

And come on now I could name 3 tracks on "Born To Reign" that are worse than "Da Butta"...

Edited August 28, 2006 by bigted

[KBlakk05]

"Alot like LL, Chuck D, Slick, + Doug E." Notice he's not mentioning any phoney, unoriginal rappers. Snoop is versitile. He has good songs and bad songs...good lyrics and bad lyrics. He's been stayed consistent over the last decade. And strangely enough, he fits in on "Pump Ya Breaks"...tho' i could easily see the song being just as good without him. The Lil' Kim colabo happened just cuz she waz popular at the time. They have nothing in common and they aren't personal friends. And's amoungst the 3 weakest songs he's done ever. And the Petey Pablo trax didn't see the light of day 4 obvious reasons. FP likes 2 mix it up and try different things. He works with different people on every album just 2 do something new since he's been recording for over 20 years.

Anyone who is trying 2 put FP in the same category as modern commercial rappers who often don't have any reality or quality in their music is just trying 2 justify their watered down taste in music. When u think of Fresh Prince, u think of Run-DMC, LL Cool J, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah and so on...not Ja-Rule, Lil' Kim, Petey Pablo, Lil' Jon, Bow Wow, and Young Joc.

Get past "Will Smith, mr. nice guy, megastar, media magnet" and listen 2 the lyrics. It's as simple as that.

I aree with alot of what you said, except for the part about Petey Pablo. Stop listening to singles, and listen to his albums - Petey can get as deep as Will can, don't believe me listen to "He Spoke To Me", "I Swear", "Gonna be Country", et cetera.

Not everyone can be positive image like Will, but there are still those who provide that image with their own struggle.

[bigted]

Yeah I think a lot of the rappers that get criticised for being negative actually have some positive songs on their albums, I got quotes from Jigga and 50 responding to criticism of their music being negative:

EW:Your music has been criticised for having too much sex,violence and profanity.What would happen if you eased up on that stuff?

Jay-Z:They wouldnt feel it.They wouldnt buy ti.Thats a fact.You absolutely know thats a fact.

50:And it wouldnt be me as an artist,so it would have no substance.It would just be words over some music.

EW:But why does sex,violence and profanity have to be the substance so much of the time?

Jay-People can tell if something is contrived.We're doing whats natural to us.We're having fun in the studio talking about experiences that we went through.For us to take ourselves out of our element just to please someone else.it wouldnt be what we do

50:How many newspapers do you think get sold a day worldwide?Aint **** positive in none of them.Maybe Sunday in the entertainment section.Everything else is about someone who did some **** they wasnt supposed to do.People want to see that

EW:even some hip hop fans say your music is too fixated on materialism and violence.Does that bother you?

Jay-Z:Nah because that sends a signal to me immediately that people dont listen to the album.

EW:That stuff is just on the hits?

Jay-Z:There you go.That lets you know what the world wants."Big Pimpin" was a huge hit but i put out a single before and after it.

EW:What were they?

Jay-Z:Yeah exactly.On my fifth album i had "Give it to Me" and "Soon You'll Understand"[sample lyric:You said the streets claim lives/but i wanted things like bling bling ice,i was wrong in hindsight].So "Give It To Me" plays on the radio for eight months a year but nobody picks up 'Soon You'll Understand."Thats the way the world is man.So if sombody says "Jay-Z just about champagne and all that" then i know[snaps his fingers]automatically that you dont listen to the album.

Like Jigga says there you really can't judge an artist off of what's on the radio all the time, they release positive songs and those don't play on the radio, I mean don't we tell that to people that diss Will? Don't believe the hype...

Edited September 20, 2006 by bigted

[DefCEM]

We're doing whats natural to us.

...

50:And it wouldnt be me as an artist,so it would have no substance.It would just be words over some music.

So heres the proof that 50 is a neanderthal. Really funny, cause back in those days before he got big, he rapped about totally other things as far as i know. so that was unnatural or what? hes just talking about such stuff. and he cant tell me that his life was just full of violence, sex and drugs. just like Will once said. "You cant tell me that you never fell in love or that you dont know that there are also other things happening in the hood besides drugs and violence" (its not exactly the same quote, just with the same meaning)

and btw, 50s music has no substance, no quality and no whatever.

and he admits that its just about sales for him and that such talk is the only way to make big money.

shut up lil faggot.

[Turntable]

Nah, he rapped about the same ish. It not about what he writes, its just that he doesnt write it good nomore.

[bigted]

50 does other type of songs that ain't about violence, sex, and drugs but most of his music still sucks, even if he turned into a gospel rapper he'd still suck, he's a sucker mc, like Busta said in "You Can't Hold The Torch" this applies to 50 "you need to work on your punchlines, finesse the flow", the difference between 50 when he started and now is that he used to come harder on the mic, now he just lost his hunger 'cause the fame got to his head, he thinks he don't have to work on a hot flow and punchlines anymore, but if he released more positive songs as singles he probably would sell less, people like negativity more, it's hard for positive music to sell, and not all positive artists are great either, look at the Black Eyed Peas, lol...

Edited September 22, 2006 by bigted

[mfuqua23]

I agree with what KoffeeBlakk said about Petey Pablo. I got his first album and I fairly enjoyed the album. But the difference between "Raise Up", and "Freak-a-leak" just turned me off. One point I will disagree with you on is getting past somebody's single. The whole point of a single is to turn people on to your album. It's just not everybody chooses to promote a different kind of single nowadays.

And 50, I thought his albums held up as far as mass appeal. "The Massacre" got a mixed reaction but everyone around me that I knew seemed to want it. And when I read a review between 'old school' and 'new school', "A Baltimore Love Thing" was actually a good song, even tho he personified being a drug. And anyway, Ted, 50 is not oging to change. It would take something miraculous but it's not going to happen. 50 and others have already dug a hole for their image. And with that, it's going to affect their personal lives a bit.

Edited September 22, 2006 by mfuqua23

[bigted]

Yeah well it's a choice that artists like 50 and these other pop rappers make that they're gonna have to deal with, the way they act sets them up for criticism, it's that type of image that they put out, they rather sell their soul just to sell more records 'cause they're doing what other people want them to do rather than doing something that they want to do from the heart, that's why they don't have much credability, making fast food music or disposable music you could say.... And btw I bet most people who liked "The Massacre" probably never even heard 50's earlier stuff, they're just bandwagon fans, 50 lost his original audience already 'cause he short changed himself, that's why he's setting himself up for a short career... The main point I wanted to make by bringing up those quotes is that it ain't really only the artists fault the way the music industry is, it's also the consumer, if they chose to be more cautious in the music they buy then I think maybe we'd see more quality music getting played on the radio and more quality music on the charts, fans choose negativity and wackness so we're gonna get negativity and wackness, simple as that, but it seems only few of us actually care about what's quality and what's not, most want to ride the bandwagon...

Edited September 22, 2006 by bigted

[mfuqua23]

If you're going to point the finger, I don't know how you missed the CEOs, A&Rs, etc. The people in a position of power that are supposedly there to make things happen. I really think somebody needs to do some type of documentary or movie that depicts what goes behind the scenes of what we find ourselves arguing about. And if any already has, please point me in the right direction.

You're point on quality isn't far off. But I think what you forget to say is that some people have different views of what quality music is.

[bigted]

Well a lot of the people behind the scenes like those who work for the record labels and media outlets seem to be more concerned about doing something to benefit themselves more than thinking about integrity, it's all about ratings and sales, they just push what has been proven to sell, there's quite a bit of things that need to happen but I think it starts with the consumer, if they were more aware of what they buy, watch, listen to then I think it'll go back to the corporations that there is a market for more variety, it's supply and demand, of course if maybe if there was more people behind the scenes that're more conscious about what they want to push out there that'd definately help but if nobody wants to buy it then it don't matter who works behind the scenes, the fans are the ones with the most power, without us buying albums these artists wouldn't have a career in the show buisiness, 50 would be still living in the projects instead of making a negative impact on hip-hop if millions of people decided not to buy his albums, these artists'd have to do other jobs if they can't sell records, the power people have is undeniable... I found an interesting editoral browsing through allhiphop.com that talks about the negativity of hip-hop being promoted by record companies:

http://www.allhiphop.com/editorial/?ID=142

It mentions that 70% of people ain't offended by hip-hop being played on the radio, so that's the problem right there, nobody cares, if the rappers who go against the grain don't get the support, it don't matter how much promotion they get, somebody like LL or Common can't do Eminem or 50 Cent numbers no matter how much promotion they get 'cause people ignore positive artists, it's been proven, for example last year Common basically released as many singles as 50 Cent did but 50 Cent sells 10X more than Common does, the record labels would go broke if they signed more artists like Common, artists like 50 Cent keep their job going 'cause that's what people want to hear, the people who buy records need to stand up and say they ain't gonna go for rappers making songs that're violent and drug infested and support the artists that put thought into music if somethings's really gonna change

Edited September 22, 2006 by bigted

[Jin]

Black Eyed Peas are representing positive hip hop, too and the sold 3x plat don`t forget that!

[Turntable]

Thats caus Will.I.Am is a genious. He got himself a good looking girl that sings hooks, and he stardet to wrap the positive lyrics in very commercial beats that are good to dance too. Thats the whole thing. If Rappers with positive lyrics wanna get more people on theyr side the need to wrap it in more commercial twisted songs, when it comes to the instrumental etc. I mean, I prefere Common and them above 50.. But 50 Beats are banging.

[ash trey]

Thats caus Will.I.Am is a genious. He got himself a good looking girl that sings hooks, and he stardet to wrap the positive lyrics in very commercial beats that are good to dance too. Thats the whole thing. If Rappers with positive lyrics wanna get more people on theyr side the need to wrap it in more commercial twisted songs, when it comes to the instrumental etc. I mean, I prefere Common and them above 50.. But 50 Beats are banging.

I see what you are saying but Common can't do club bangers ... i mean he did do hot verses on

"Get 'em High" and the "She wants to move" remix but apart from that Common is a mellow dude... I do not want to hear him sing Lean Back or Drop Like it's Hot I want to hear Fat Joe and Remy on tracks like that.

But Talib Kweli's been rapping over Hi-Tek and Kanye way before the whole commercial rap industry was fighting over their beats... but Kweli never blew up like the half of them.

The only positive hip hop track of BEP's that ever blew up was "Where is the love" - Other than that it is just silly poppy dance tacks (the singles...the album cuts are sometimes dope) and songs like "Like That" (In my opinion their best track) will never get as much air play as Fergei's "Lovely Lady Lumps". :lolsign:

[Turntable]

Dont have to be clubby. Just needs to be catchy. We like the more undeground Kanye Beats, and we like Premier Beats.. But most people find it borring. The beat must be catchy.. If the manage that, it sells. Just look at Switch, Control Myself, Dont Lie etc.. (Oh and guys like Fat Joe didnt start with club tracks. Infact, that took him about 8 years. )